We are at the point where we understand the second level of politics some. But we have not taken on all of them – organized religion is organized to sell votes – mostly for favors, probably some times for cash.
Islam, the Moonies, Scientology. the Peoples Temple is especially good on a local scale, The Catholic Church, the mass Jewish organizations, it is a near endless list. Organized religion is another racket. Once you go to a priest and are given a book you have been enlisted in a political cause. Think of all the people who have stopped going to church. The marks are wising up.
CapitalistRoader sees it this way:
The US became the most prosperous, healthiest, least-imperialist superpower due to the kind of people represented in the video above. There’s always been a natural tension between the state, big business, and big religion. That tension kept the US from sliding too far one way or another ideologically. Get rid of religion and you slide into fascism. Get rid of religion and privately held business and you’re living in a communist state.
Yes. And it probably was a good religion for the times. Except for some minor defects like rampant racism, and intense Jew hatred in some sections of the church. And the desire, still extant, to persecute opiate users. In fact the whole need for the daily two minutes of hate is encouraged in some quarters. How about we all hate the Andromeda Nebula instead. We need to study it intensely so we can defeat it.
Power and Control is the essence of organized Religion.
Our situation is now different. We need religions that match. No matter what some people want – persecution of gays is off the table. No matter what the Bible says. Adultery is not going to get the death sentence. We have DNA. Now if only the laws matched. Could we please get all the other persecutions off the table. Like Drug Prohibition.
I also replied in the thread (edited):
I’m sorry. I took the Red Pill long ago.
I’m all for religion. Every man should silence the inner noises and listen to god. He has a religion tailored to each individual.
And the mystery religions based on drug induced visions? Well – look what happened to LSD because of the Christian uproar. They knew a competitor when they saw one. Besides how do you organize trippers?
And then how about these Christians?
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Well enough of that. Let me just say that I really like a lot of what Jesus is supposed to have said. But we really don’t know what he said, because texts have been altered or left out for political reasons since the First Council of Nicea. No one for sure knows the religion of Jesus. And that is for political reasons mostly. What comes through if you can scrape off some of the detritus is that Jesus was a subversive guy and Christianity – until tamed – was a subversive religion.
Individuals sharing is a whole different religion from ministers giving sermons.
Comments
14 responses to “People Who Have Stopped Going To Church”
If Jesus really existed at all. See
“The Historical Evidence for Jesus” – G.A. Wells. Short form: there isn’t any.
There’s some good advice in the non metaphysical parts.
I’m not a nihilist. Some morals are better than no morals. After we filter out the parts aimed at desert [sic,haha] nomads living in a tent 4000 years ago. I really don’t believe the Big Bully in the sky is going to burn me forever if He doesn’t like what I do with my penis. Or carve a statue, for that matter.
Yup, Simon, religion is responsible for some terrible things. Religions are run by men and mankind has done unspeakable things in the name of religion. I’d counter though that government has done exponentially more harm to humans, at least in the previous century.
180 years ago a famous Frenchman analyzed and wrote about religion in America. My overall impression is that he was both amused and amazed that religion fit in so well in a democratic republic:
If you truly understood Catholicism, which you do not, or had traveled to the Holy Land and walked in Jesus’ footsteps, then you would not sound like such a nihilist. Sad to hear people turn their backs on God’s word because they think they know better. They don’t. And if you really want to learn about what Jesus said and did, go to the website of the Institute of Catholic Culture and learn from the videos of lectures.
If you had sought the truth of the Buddha and understood his great sacrifice in turning back from his escape from the wheel of life in order to enlighten the rest of humanity in hope toward that great end, you would understand that all Western religions are nihilist by nature. It cannot be said to be otherwise.
Alexandra,
I have found it very dangerous to turn my back on God’s word. He talks to me PERSONALLY all the time.
As he does to each of us. If we only would sit down, shut up and listen.
In fact I believe there is something in the Bible that suggests that very thing.
Even Jesus in some verse suggests that any man can do what he has done. Learn to listen.
But a Pope? Bibles? Priests? Forgive me. That is politics. Not religion. Islam being the most extreme example. The People’s Temple is another.
You want to follow such a religion? Fine by me. But me take it seriously?
What has religion devolved to? We have priests and ministers telling us what Jesus said. In other words third hand information.
People are falling away from organized religion.
Organized? To whose benefit?
Think of all the Catholics who pay no attention to the pronouncement of the pope. Why? And those aren’t even the lapsed Catholics.
CapitalistRoader,
From your Alexis de Tocqueville quote:
This proves, in the first place, that at such times religions ought more cautiously than at any other to confine themselves within their own precincts; for in seeking to extend their power beyond religious matters, they incur a risk of not being believed at all.
Well guess what. Belief is falling away. Why? Well silence can be taught. But when the Pope suggests that voting for Trump is a bad idea he has exceeded his religious authority. He risks not being believed at all.
In America the Republican Party’s religious faction is a turn off to most Americans when it comes to getting elected President. See Cruz, Ted.
“God told me to make you do this” is in fact as bad as “Marx told me to make you do this.”
I like the words of that famous American religious Avatar Jiminy Cricket “Always Let Your Conscience Be Your Guide!”
https://youtu.be/DOZzNOkcEgM
[…] The essence of the message is in the first 30 seconds. “Always Let Your Conscience Be Your Guide!” Why would that be? Because no rule book can cover everything. And sometimes the rules SHOULD be broken. Permanently. This video is an answer to this discussion. […]
[…] Let me quote you from a piece I recently posted. […]
c andrew,
Could you enlarge on your comment?
Commenting broken? Two attempts down the drain.
CapitalistRoader had this to say in a comment that got lost:
“Well guess what. Belief is falling away. Why? Well silence can be taught. But when the Pope suggests that voting for Trump is a bad idea he has exceeded his religious authority. He risks not being believed at all.”
Agreed. And belief is falling away because free markets have improved the condition of humanity to the point that people in the developed world don’t need metaphysics to explain their crappy material existence. That loss of market share resulted in religions trying all sorts of fashionable marketing ploys to keep from disappearing completely. A Peronist pope spouting simple minded, anti-capitalist drivel. Most of the mainline Protestant denominations are simpatico with the National Council of Churches which is full of brain damaged communists spouting their own brand of anti-capitalism.
I’d argue that the religious left is a bigger danger to the Americas than the religious right regarding seeking to extend their power beyond religious matters. We saw what happened when a guy marinaded in Reverend Wright’s black liberation theology inanity for 20 years and then became the chief executive. I’d also argue that Bernie Sanders’ brand of liberation socialism has morphed into a pseudo-religion since its founding over 150 years ago. Socialism—like end-of-days prophesies—has failed so many times in so many places such that its remaining adherents have to adopt an almost metaphysical mindset to keep believing in it. Roger Kimball (bold mine):
CapitalistRoader,
Yes. So why am I going after the right? Because I think they can be saved. I have no hope for the left at this time.
Church attendance is off for many reasons, not the least of which is the watering down of the word, the lack of intestinal fortitude when it comes to major issues, to wit: Abortion, nothing less than genocide, period., Homosexual marriage, a cruel caricature of true marriage. Many people who do go to church usually attend the “mega” churches, complete with rock bands, music videos, and the most insipid line of garbage passed off as the gospels, sad to say, most Christians have absolutely no backbone.
If you won’t stand for something, you will fall for anything.
Christopher,
How can abortion be genocide if it is individual women making individual decisions? You remember the “Good Old Days” when abortion was illegal? There was a thriving abortion black market. I have never understood why Christians are so into black markets. Black markets require politics, laws, and enforcers.
And gays getting married? Please explain how that affects my marriage.
Church is political. Ever notice how many States have a State religion? OTOH coming to God is individual. No Church required.