Eric and I were discussing the need to beat Obama. He thought that libertarians should bend over backwards to see that Obama was defeated. I had a little different point of view.
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I agree with you generally on beating Obama. But I also think it is unwise to let them get too comfortable with our support. They will double cross us like they do to members of their own team. You know – the “where else will you go?” attitude.
We must make them work hard to keep our support. Which is why I like to throw in the occasional jab.
The weakest member of a coalition determines the politics of the coalition. Despite what the majority thinks.
Libertarians are starting to gain enough power that they are shifting both parties. And we are just at the beginning of that shift.
We must act like independent cats not like loyal dogs. Sometimes when they call we must not respond.
Tom’s piece really got me thinking.
Comments
22 responses to “Bending Them Towards Liberty”
There is a fine line between “Hard to get” and “Hard to want”. I think your post made sense in the past, but now now, after the libertarians betrayed the Republicans and the cause of Freedom by forming a third party (The Libertarian Party) and throwing countless elections to the Democrats, the party that started the Drug war so their thugs would have something to do after Prohibition. Regaining the Trust of someone you’ve betrayed is tricky, and not the time to be a cat….
Robert,
Nixon’s the one. Wage and price controls ring a bell?
And who are the last major hold outs on Drug Prohibition despite its inception as a Progressive Program? Republicans.
The Republicans have been a Progressive Party for quite some time.
Or as I like to say. We are a two party system. Democrats and Christian Democrats. Now explain to me why I should be loyal to Democrats?
You know who I have to work with to end Prohibition? Progressives. And they will use it to win an election or three. Stupid Republicans.
I’ll have more to say on this in a bit but the First Mate Needs my help.
When the Republicans show some loyalty, I will show some loyalty to them. In the mean time balance of power is my game.
I am no more interested in moral socialism than I am in economic socialism. Both are dangerous. And for the Republicans it is worse actually because moral socialism is evidence of loss of faith. Why is it worse? Because Republicans are supposed to be the party of the faithful.
The Democrats – who being secular are not blinded in the matter see that clearly. Of course the Democrats can’t run the numbers. So there is that against THEM.
And how much of that is because the Libertarians threw their tantrum, and took their ball and went home? Either you guys had political pull, or you didn’t. If you did, then of course your leaving would cause the party to lean left. If you didn’t, then your whole “Cat” thing is pointless, because you offer nothing of value. Your example is telling. The gun nuts stayed in the Republican party and the last twenty years have been an almost unbroken string of victories for them. You and yours? Left the Republican party, and the Drug war has been getting bigger and bigger. Yes, the Democrats promise they work with you, and they have such a good track record there, don’t they? I mean, they did so well ending Poverty…..
Democrats are the secular party? It is to laugh. Their religions (Gaia, Global Warming, Socialism) are far more blinding. Try to see with eyes unclouded with hate.
It’s a winner take all system. You can either work within one of the two parties, or you can, at best, be as successful as the Bull Moose party was, and give us another Wilson. As to trust, it was the Libertarians who betrayed, and they are the ones who must work on regaining trust.
Robert,
The Party went far left and that is when the libs decided to leave. BTW I’m no longer a Libertarian (since 9/11). I’m a libertarian. Or more correctly Libertarian Republican. What is euphemistically called a swing voter.
I voted for Obama over Keyes in ’04. Heh. And I KNEW Obama was a communist back then. But Keyes was an insufferable moral socialist and he got killed in Illinois.
You might like my rehash of that election:
http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2009/11/obamakeyes-vs-kerry-bush.html
Wen the Republicans go back to being the Party they were in 1900 they will be unbeatable. As long as they just want to be the Christian wing of the Progressive Party they will be beatable.
Uh Robert. It is the majority who has to regain the trust of the minority. At least if you want to win elections.
Let me explain it again. It is the weakest member of a political coalition that determines the politics (at least during the election season) of the coalition.
I CAN work with the Communists. They need technical help just as much as the Capitalists. So I don’t fear a Communist take over. In fact I have publicly promised to work with them if they come out on top.
In fact my kids are engineers or engineering students. I can probably do something for them too. Fix your shite or nomenklatura here I come.
Let the American people get a good hard taste of totalitarianism and it will cure them for a generation. But it will be some hard times for the poor saps who got us into this mess. And most every one else. My condolences.
Well I’m comfortable with unconventional religions. Christianity is basically a pagan religion. Roman in fact. So no problem there.
I advise Christians to get back to the old time religion. If it was good enough for Jesus it is good enough for me.
But what ever. There are a LOT of folks who feel as I do about the situation. I’m just one of the more articulate. At least when it comes to writing.
If you are feeling desperate perhaps it is time to cater to the cats. Or kill them. Because I’m never going to be a dog.
First you have to actually be part of the Political Coalition, and that part you have failed at. And weakest only works to a point, and you and yours have failed at that (or you are powerless, because I stand alone and am therefore the weakest part of the Coalition…..). The “Cat” part comes after you have proven your coalition has value, and so far your coalition has proven to only valuable to the Democrats, as a means of stripping the Republicans of votes, which would end if you joined the Democrats. So, still in the “Hard to want” zone……
Yes, the Communists are willing to work with anyone, until the October Revolution…..
Yes, that is what I am arguing against, that thirst you and the other “cats” have for Totalitarianism, the surreal belief that the Republicans are intolerable, but somehow you’ll be able to work with the actual Communists.
Oh, I’m not desperate. It just pains me that a group of people who claim to love Freedom are so willing to make the Perfect the Enemy of the Good that they lust for Stalin (“Let the American people get a good hard taste of totalitarianism”). Much like when Porkbusters’s unhappiness with the Deficit gave control of Congress to the Democrats, and a tenfold increase in said Deficit. Sigh.
OK. I get it. You don’t want my vote. Point taken.
I have no thirst for totalitarianism. Quite the opposite. If there was a non-statist party that had a chance of winning I’d vote for it. And promote it.
I have a choice between a left version and a right version. The left will at least act as if it likes me before the election. The right will give me moral harangues. Guess which is more attractive? See Illinois ’04.
There will be an October no matter who wins. Since the left is less technically competent they will need me more.
BTW you may be interested in why McCain picked Palin. I was a strong Palin supporter:
http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2009/11/why-mccain-picked-palin.html
You might want to tell Romney that Rand Paul is a good VP choice. For the same reason McCain picked Palin. Read my article to find out why.
Oh, I want your vote. I don’t want your helplessness and despair. Again, the gun nuts played the game, and are winning (not that there can ever be a final victory in a Democracy). You can play “There’s no difference!” between the two parties, but, alas, the facts show otherwise. Places the Republicans are in charge of are quite nice places, if not perfect. Places where the Democrats rule are hellholes. Chicago, Detroit, California. Libertarians are not flocking to any of them.
For all your worries about Republican “Moral Harangues”, I’m hard pressed to think of anything close to the Democrats attacking Chick Fil A with the power of the State, or the Democrats attacks on Free Speech on College Campuses, or the Government’s attack against Catholic Hospitals. That’s just this year. Your parity of the two parties would seem to be an illusion…..
Oh, I want your vote. I don’t want your helplessness and despair.
I’m not helpless and I don’t despair. I can work with who ever wins.
And then there is Colorado 64 that I’m doing with my Progressive friends. It is looking very good.
And Robert,
The Republican Party is in transition:
http://classicalvalues.com/2012/07/liberty-or-death/
For all your worries about Republican “Moral Harangues”, I’m hard pressed to think of anything close to the Democrats attacking Chick Fil A with the power of the State, or the Democrats attacks on Free Speech on College Campuses, or the Government’s attack against Catholic Hospitals.
There seems to be something in your eye clouding your vision. You failed to notice Drug Prohibition which jails hundreds of thousands in America, kills thousands in America, kills tens of thousands in other countries. Denies people medicine (and not just the illegal ones). In infringes our liberties. Promotes gun laws. Reduces our constitutional protections. etc. etc. etc.
I have more to say on that here:
http://classicalvalues.com/2012/07/liberty-or-death/
There is none so blind as he who will not see.
Ah. I forgot to mention the innocents killed regularly in botched raids.
Lucky it wasn’t you eh?
Of course the Republican party is in transition. And your idiot plan to be a “cat” only insures that your voice will not be part of the discussion.
Ah, no. I was the one to point out that the Drug war was started by the Democrats, and is maintained by the Democrats. Note how Obama is going after medical drugs in California. Good thing you are working on your Prop. 64, so that People in Colorado can also be arrested by the Democrats. Try to see with eyes unclouded by hate. If the Democrats were serious about doing something about the Drug War, they would have done so when they had the Presidency, two thirds of the Senate, and a Veto Proof majority in the House. They had total control of the Government and did nothing. You can’t blame the Republicans, they haven’t had those kind of numbers since the Civil War (Which pre-dates the Drug war, which was started by the Democrats). The Democrats love the Drug War. It puts all people at risk, and then they get to do the “Godfather” thing, and “fix” it for a favor to be named later. And they get to have useful idiots like you dance to their tune for nothing (but, but Prop. 64! The Democrats can’t possibly be so evil that they would push Prop. 64, knowing the Feds will continue to ruin people! They couldn’t possibly be able to count votes and let some Democrats pretend to be on Liberty’s side, while never actually winning…..).
Really? Waco was a Democrat raid. Ruby Ridge was a Democrat raid. Elián González was a Democrat raid (and the vile policy where we send lovers of Freedom back to Cuba is a Democrat Policy). Can you point out an example where the Republicans were so out of control that they gas and burned alive hundreds of Americans, while the whole world was watching, and the cameras were running?
“None so blind as he who will not see.”. Yes, such as someone who lets the Perfect be the Enemy of the Good to the point where he hopes for ” Let the American people get a good hard taste of totalitarianism”, someone so out of it that he thinks engineers were part of the nomenklatura. Someone so blinded by Pride that he thinks he can work with “Progressives” and not get his throat slit……..
Of course my voice is part of the discussion. You are here discussing it aren’t you?
In any case the Rs need the cats to win. So even if I’m on the outside (I do have influences on the inside but that is for another time and place) the Rs will have to find a way to cater to me.
I (and many others) have already split the party in Colorado:
http://thecoloradoobserver.com/2012/07/6604/
I’m having fun. You?
As if Drug Legalization was not a Republican issue from the start. You have split nothing. And of course you are having fun. Fevered dreams are fun as a rule. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUhOnX8qt3I&list=PL0BA63129BC90C7B3&index=32&feature=plpp_video explains most Libertarians quite well, and you seem to be no exception…..
Robert,
Drug legalization was a Republican Dream in 1914. Between then an now the Party got taken over by Christian Progressives and lost its way. I’m helping the Party to find its way again.
BTW I’m quite active in the legalization movement and I must say Republicans have been conspicuous by their absence for the last 40 or so years. That is changing. Thank the Maker.
You will remember the “Drug War” was started by Nixon. (well not really – he just made it a top drawer political issue). And here I thought he was a Republican.
And you might find this of some amusement:
http://www.ctrl.org/boodleboys/boddlesboys2.html
And I’m sure you have read Catherine Austin Fitts on the subject. HUD Under Secretary in the Bush 1 Admin. The picture at the bottom of the above link might help you make the connection.
You might also be familiar with Air America and what is currently called the Cocaine Importation Agency.
I could go on. If you come back for more I might.
There is a lot that needs burning Robert. You should have cleared the tinder from the forest before now. Then the fire would have been small and manageable.
My condolences.
And you know what they say – if you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
“It’s time for us to move into open rebellion.” We have no interest in non-debates where political hopefuls agree with each other. We have lost faith in politicians and are no longer being seduced by the authoritarian regimes’ media diversions. We can no longer expect elections to save us; giving those our vote who pervert and subvert our Founding Documents, our principles, merely endorses their criminality.
DENY CONSENT! Tell Congress, they have no legitimacy! Tell them, their dictates and actions are criminal. Tell the servants of tyranny they do not have our consent to police the world, the market or what we, as individuals choose as our medicinal/social drugs. Please, help make them recognize that they’re losing the consent of the American people, and that without that consent they have no legitimacy and must reverse our course, or it will become necessary to alter or abolish this government and institute a form of government more likely to “effect our safety and happiness” now and in the future.
Tell them to remember our First Presidents biggest concern, “My first wish is to see this plague of mankind, war, banished from the earth.” DENY CONSENT Bombard the tyrants! Withdraw your consent frequently, repeatedly! http://www.downsizedc.org/tell-congress-what-to-do
A powerful tool, a window of opportunity, in our war of good over evil; the Internet continues to revolutionize the way we communicate and has enormous potential for reshaping the political process.
Authoritarian politicians are law-crazed criminals because they have forgotten or have chosen to ignore our founding documents! What do you call people who break the law? Is the Constitution a law? Do politicians violate the Constitution?
Be brave and end the terror by changing our intrusive, big-bully policies, both foreign and domestic. The monetary and environmental costs are staggering and the human suffering unconscionable.
Bring our troops home! Reduce our military presence and spending around the world. Cut the interventionists, military industrial complex, warmongering budget to the bone! Do the same with funds for morally bankrupt drug war programs.
Thanks for all you do for reform!
I prefer quiet rebellion. A withdrawal. Don’t fight the machine. Gum it up.
And despite the monstrous crimes committed I would offer mercy. We are better than they are. Plus it makes it easier for them to surrender. Not that I expect open surrender. More like a slinking away. The sooner the better.