Penn and Teller on circumcision (embedding disabled because you have to go to YouTube and declare you are 21):
I have been unable to get through it, which is odd, because this is one of those topics I don’t have strong feelings about either way.
And even if you can’t stand to watch it, by all means read the comments. Yikes!
The oikophobia is almost as hard to stomach as the video.
Anyway, I decided to post it here because I can’t watch it, so maybe I can let others watch it for me, and sound off.
My libertarian perspective isn’t especially helpful in this analysis. Sure I believe in free choice, and oppose government involvement in medicine or personal decisions. But choice applies to adults, right? Sheesh. You’d think they’d at least give the babies anesthesia first. Why should invasion of the sanctity of the penis be an infant’s first lesson? Religion aside, of course. The fact that they did it to me is irrelevant.
Might the best approach be to let the child decide for himself when he is old enough?
Comments
8 responses to “A very unpleasant video on a topic I’d rather not think about”
For Orthodox Jews, circumcision is the sign of the covenant with God. For them it must be done within eight days of birth by someone who specializes in the procedure. In my generation, it was routinely done on most boy infants in the hospital, presumably under anesthesia and most certainly under sterile conditions. I don’t remember.
If you want to see real child abuse, go to any public school and watch what they do to the boys.
For that matter, go to any liberal arts college and watch what they do to white men.
Circumcision and kosher meats are being outlawed in must of Europe as part of the wave of traditional antisemitism that is sweeping the Continent. It’s coming here, too. Soon Jews will not be safe anywhere except Israel. They really need to expel the Arabs from Gaza and the West Bank so that they will have room for the refuges. They also need missiles that can reach Washington and the European capitals.
Has anyone done a real study on late-life circumcisions? So you’d have some real “before-and-after” comparisons? If it was mentioned in the video I didn’t watch it. For me, 30 minutes is just too much time and bandwidth to spend on this.
I had mine done as a newborn just as standard practice not for any religious reasons. Unless having a foreskin means constant mindblowing orgasms, I doubt I’m missing out on much.
There are so many other things doing great harm to so many that I find it difficult to get worked up over this just now…
So let me get this straight. God created the universe 13.8 billion years ago and then bided his time until about four thousand years ago when he introduced himself to a bunch of ignorant sheep herders and told them to slice their dongs. Sounds reasonable to me.
It seems that most of the world throughout history has made it just fine without circumcision, I don’t see why we can’t do the same. Given that I don’t think children are the property of their parents, I don’t think parents should be allowed to circumcise their boys unless there is clear evidence that the benefits of the procedure are overwhelmingly beneficial to the boy. As this doesn’t seem to be the case, it shouldn’t be done as far as I’m concerned.
If men want to circumcise themselves for either religious or aesthetic purposes, they can do so when they are adults. Religious freedoms or centuries old customs don’t give parents or guardians the right to slice foreskins, remove clitorises, brand the skin, or do other things that mar or disfigure their children. These things arose during mankind’s superstitious past and should be condemned by rational people everywhere.
Porn (American variety) hardly ever shows “skin”. I wonder why.
-Possibly because Americans are so used to circumcised dicks they think dangling foreskins are ugly. Not the case for Europorn.
-I had a friend who told me he got circumcised age 18 because his girlfriend insisted on it. He says sex is definitely better with one.
-Not watching the video because, whether or not I agree with him I think Penn Jillette is a big, fat loudmouth bully. Screaming “BULLSHIT!!!!!!” doesn’t either convince or impress.
-Part of the problem in having a rational discussion is that the usual lefty hysterical fanatics have so distorted the issue.
-Jehova sure does have a thing about foreskins, doesn’t he? (Actually, if you think that’s bad, read about Australian Aboriginals sub-incision rituals…ouch!)
Studies from Africa consistently show personal and public health benefits to circumcision. Slows the spread of STD’s.
Say what you will about Deuteronomy, the Jews were serious about public health.
Is it time to ban children’s haircuts?
1. There was a survey done in Israel – which absorbed a large number of uncircumcised Soviet Jews, many of whom were circumcised in adulthood.
The result was very nearly 3-ways even between “now it’s better” “now it’s worse” and “no real change”.
Of course the “activists” on both sides claimed the “no real change” group for their side, the anti-circers mumbling something about “false consciousness”.
When researchers went back to the questionnaires, they found some correlation between the motivation for the surgery and the satisfaction with the result. Those who were dragooned into it by girlfriends or peer pressure were more likely to be dissatisfied – which confirms that sex happens between the ears as much as the legs.
The circumcision these men underwent was the Jewish technique – which preserves most or all of the sensitive frenulum and inner lining of the foreskin. This is very different from the more radical procedure performed in American hospitals.
2. Regarding Jehova’s interest in genitals – consider that:
a) sexuality is certainly an important sphere for morality, since it has great potential for personal debasement and exploitation of others.
b) the sign of the covenant is placed at the point where new life comes into the world – signifying that a man considers himself as more than a beast or pagan given over to their urges, but a G-d like creature with free will – who chooses not to debase themselves or exploit others, in sex and it other matters. This is why Abram’s circumcision comes with a name change – his new name (Abraham) means “father of many nations” indicating the new world order posited by monotheism.
The symbolism is not arbitrary, but quite exact – and pertinent to our generation, where a pagan, selfish view of humanity is reasserting itself, and fatherhood, brotherhood, and other Judeo-Christian masculine virtues are denigrated.