Morality at gunpoint isn’t

I was going to leave another comment to M. Simon’s post but I think that when one of his posts reminds me of one of mine (as well as something I just read in a great new novelette I’m reading), a new post is merited.

Anyway, here’s M. Simon (seconded by excellent commenter Kathy Kinsley):

I differentiate sin from crime. Sin is what you do to yourself that is harmful to you. Crime is what you do to others. All crime is a sin. Not all sins are crimes. Except under the American Taliban.

I think that may be a little harsh in one respect. I would hesitate to call American law enforcement types and their supporters “the American Taliban.” While I see the point, I think such hyperbole tends to alienate rather than persuade. OTOH, when you consider that the people under discussion routinely invade homes and shoot family pets to death over victimless crimes in the name of morality enforcement, what should they properly be called? Misguided morality police?

Or am I being too polite here?

This is an old issue, but just for the record, I have long believed that we should get back to the legal distinction between malum prohibitum and malum in se.

The abandonment of that distinction has caused people to lose their sense of right and wrong.

The war on drugs is obliterating morality in the name of enforcing it.

UPDATE: As to whether I am being too polite, thanks for the comments, And thanks Bill Quick, for putting it this way:

Depends on how strongly you feel about bending the knee to a bunch of jack-booted thugs of the state.

Hmm. Maybe I am too polite.

Perhaps I deserve a rebuke from Noel Coward!

(And now I hope I don’t get in trouble with Mike Godwin!)


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8 responses to “Morality at gunpoint isn’t”

  1. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    I was just going to fix your html. And then I got the warning “Eric is editing”. Good blog code design.

  2. Kathy Kinsley Avatar
    Kathy Kinsley

    “Or am I being too polite here?”

    You’re being too polite. 😛

    “Misguided” just gets shrugs. “American Taliban” gets attention – maybe negative, but it makes them think.

  3. […] is Theft – At the Point of A Gun Posted on November 19, 2012 5:30 pm by Bill Quick Classical Values » Morality at gunpoint isn’t I think that may be a little harsh in one respect. I would hesitate to call American law […]

  4. Eric Avatar

    Kathy I used to work closely with cops and I have had very close friends who were police officers. The thing is, those guys who run around and kick in doors and shoot family pets are steeped in a weird sort of altruism.

    They actually believe they are helping people.

    I know that sounds fantastic, but let that sink in, and try to put yourself in their position. They think they are giving of themselves and risking their lives for a good, even noble cause. They and many others think they are heroes. (Echoes of Eliot Ness?) You and I think pretty much the opposite.

    Clearly a huge, seemingly insurmountable gap exists. I’m all ears as to how to deal with it. I would like to see something happen as opposed to ranting for the millionth time about how awful the situation is.

    Blatant partisan politics is now creeping into the drug war. If the Republicans could wise up about legalization, the Dems would be toast, but they won’t, as they think this is a moral issue.

    Which it is, except the GOP is on the wrong side. While I concede that drug taking constitutes personal immorality, imposing morality at gunpoint — and imprisoning people for personal immorality — is a far greater immorality than the immorality imposed upon.

  5. Bill Quick Avatar

    While I concede that drug taking constitutes personal immorality…

    Well, I don’t make that concession, and I’d be interested in having you explicate the system of morality under which you do.

    Of course, I practice a morality based on rights, not religion….

  6. Eric Avatar

    Bill, thanks for stopping by, I think that taking drugs like marijuana, LSD, cocaine and opiates are, like drinking alcohol, generally bad for human beings, in that they tend to cause harm to health over a period of time. The same thing could be said about eating too much, especially unhealthy foods. So a person who does any of these things is to that extent guilty of self harm, and while self harm may not threaten society (and thus there is a right to do it), it is a form of personal immorality. And a big so what to that….

    Amazingly, we are not perfect. Does that mean we should be policed for our imperfections? Maybe so, according to the ruling class. Turn on the TV, and you will see bureaucrats conducting what amount to raids (“interventions”) on people who are considered to have accumulated too many possessions. (“Hoarders.”)

    I also concede the immorality of these things to make the larger point that the “immorality” of self harm does not give the government the right to police it. If we accept the drug war then we must accept the soft drink war, and Obamacare. (It is immoral not to care for yourself properly! And so what?)

  7. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Wait a minute. Curing cancer is bad for health?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/marijuana-and-cancer_n_1898208.html

    Ameliorating PTSD is bad for health?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-204_162-6692174.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_therapy

    Pain relief:

    http://marijuanamedicine.com/2012/09/retired-marijuana-farmer-cultivated-pot-to-alleviate-arthritis/

    ================

    I’m with Bill. Most immorality is manufactured and is only relevant to time and place.

    After all alcohol is moral in the US and immoral in Muslim countries. The same for a host of things.

    =======

    Or take a practice in America that is almost universally considered immoral. Abortion. But for Orthodox Jews under some circumstances not practicing abortion is immoral.

    That one drives my socon friends nuts and they can not come to grips with that.

  8. Kathy Kinsley Avatar
    Kathy Kinsley

    “They actually believe they are helping people.”

    I KNOW that – and that’s why polite DOES NOT get their attention. You have to rub their noses in the fact that they ARE HURTING PEOPLE.

    I have a similar background. Think of them as OCD sufferers – they see only what they want to see. Unless they get shocked into paying attention.