Where Are The Links?

In A Dagger Pointed At The Heart Of The Church, I decried the lack of Church involvement in ending the Drug War. I said (in a round about way):

People in chronic pain chronically take pain relievers

And that it was morally wrong to be punishing such people for the illegal use of pain relievers.

I asked at the article (and a previous one) “where are links showing church opposition to the Drug War?” So far no one attacking my position has posted even one link. There must be some “church” organizations besides the Unitarians and Reform Jews who oppose the Drug War. Aren’t there?

You can leave links in the comments. If you have any.

One of the great moral questions of our time and as far as I can tell religion in America is mostly missing in action.

I did write about Pat Robertson coming out for pot legalization. Except he didn’t quite go that far. He just thought the the punishment for the crime was excessive. Evidently it caused such a firestorm among his viewers that he has backed off some. The Truth? Well you can’t tell it if it interferes with the cash flow.

As Eric repeatedly points out:

They can’t legalize it because there is too much money in it.

Evidently the churches are getting their cut – in a round about way. And the parishioners are getting the message they pay for. God help them all. God help us all. Because when the War ends there will be Hell to pay. We have run up a rather large Bill with the Devil. And the Devil always gets his Due.

Update: I hardly had this posted before a commenter popped up with the reason the churches are silent on the matter.

dude give unto ceasar? allan ackbar you’re embarrassing.

Well yes. I am embarrassing. The Church in America. But I did reply to the commenter:

Ah. Well then. Caesar was perfectly right to nail that guy up to the cross. Because no matter how immoral Caesar you have to give him what he wants.

There was a time (1937 to 1945) when Caesar wanted the Jews. Deliver them up? OK. It is still a huge moral stain on the local church. And Martin Luther didn’t come out looking too good either.

The Drug War will be another one.

BTW I take it you don’t have any links either. Thank you for proving my point.

May I add? “Dude. It is pointless to try to defend the moral failings of the church. Better to put your efforts into fixing them.”


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19 responses to “Where Are The Links?”

  1. newrouter Avatar
    newrouter

    ““where are links showing church opposition to the Drug War?” ”

    dude give unto ceasar? allan ackbar you’re embarrassing.

  2. newrouter Avatar
    newrouter

    ““where are links showing church opposition to the Drug War Abortion?” ”

  3. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Ah. Well then. Caesar was perfectly right to nail that guy up to the cross. Because no matter how immoral Caesar you have to give him what he wants.

    There was a time (1937 to 1945) when Caesar wanted the Jews. Deliver them up? OK. It is still a huge moral stain on the local church. And Martin Luther didn’t come out looking too good either.

    The Drug War will be another one.

    BTW I take it you don’t have any links either. Thank you for proving my point.

  4. newrouter Avatar
    newrouter

    also the “church” that was doing you so much damage in the “public” schools was the “protestant church”. the catholics weren’t involved. that is why there are “catholic” schools dude.

  5. newrouter Avatar
    newrouter

    “There was a time (1937 to 1945) when Caesar wanted the Jews. Deliver them up? OK. It is still a huge moral stain on the local church. And Martin Luther didn’t come out looking too good either.”

    i know and the sulzbergers and their newspaper were where exactly? and fdr and the loser proggs where were they exactly?
    you ain’t pushing that guilt/bullshit my way pal.

  6. newrouter Avatar
    newrouter

    “BTW I take it you don’t have any links either. Thank you for proving my point.”

    children before drug addicts dude

  7. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Here is one I post frequently:

    Rockford Pro Life

    They want to end abortion without Government help. Some members are personal friends of mine.

    Search the site for that link. You will find it posted numerous times.

    If I knew of any other orgs that opposed abortion and wanted to stop it without government involvement I’d post their links too. Got any?

  8. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    OK.

    I take it that until the abortion question is solved persecuting people in pain is on. And the church must remain silent.

    And you wonder why I’m predicting the demise of the church over this.

  9. newrouter Avatar
    newrouter

    dude this is it quit the rest:

    Tea Party Patriots Mission Statement and Core Values

    Mission Statement

    The impetus for the Tea Party movement is excessive government spending and taxation. Our mission is to attract, educate, organize, and mobilize our fellow citizens to secure public policy consistent with our three core values of Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government and Free Markets.

    Core Values

    * Fiscal Responsibility
    * Constitutionally Limited Government
    * Free Markets
    http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/24209.html

  10. newrouter Avatar
    newrouter

    “I take it that until the abortion question is solved persecuting people in pain is on. And the church must remain silent.”

    allan ackbar you be social conservative. eff both of those issue. a failed country doesn’t care.

  11. newrouter Avatar
    newrouter

    “And you wonder why I’m predicting the demise of the church over this.”

    outside of technology your predictions are fun to hear about like a 3 yr old.

  12. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Ah. Constitutionally Limited government.

    I never noticed a Prohibition Amendment. Except for Alcohol.

    ===

    It is evident you are unclear on the concept US Constitution. Pity.

  13. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    BTW check back with me in five years. If the churches don’t get out front on this they will be losing a lot of former donations and the members who gave them.

    It can’t happen here.

    But it did happen to the Churches in Europe. Over different matters.

    Early days yet. There is still time to change course. But not much.

    We had Churches fighting slavery. We had Churches fighting Jim Crow. We had Churches fighting the Vietnam war. Why are they MIA when it comes to persecuting people in pain? It can’t be just government opposition. Because the government was against all those movements (until a Civil War started in the case of slavery – when the government split).

    What do I think? The Pharisees have joined with the Romans to throw the Christians (dopers) to the lions. It won’t be the first time.

  14. Will Avatar
    Will

    Simon, I assume that many of the churches are still focused on the perceived dangers of Dragon Chasing and don’t want to consider the collateral damage for those with chronic pain. All humans are stubborn in admitting they have been wrong and institutions of traditional authority are exponentially more so. Of course I’ve been a crazy old hermit observing from the outside for more than a decade now, so things could have changed more than I’ve noticed.
    There would/will? be unintended consequences to legalization too, but I suspect the worst would be slow to develop. Fundamentalist churches try so hard to protect their followers and their children from dangerous influences that they forget their own basic tenet; that everyone has a G_d given right to reject belief and be damned.

  15. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Will,

    But that is exactly what makes the whole thing so immoral. As my “Heroin” link points out: those Chasing the Dragon are already in pain (at least most of them in so far as we can tell – I had a heroin “addict” who commented on a post of mine who said it was all of them). And further – it doesn’t have much attraction to those not in pain. Which was why the first 10 people who tried heroin didn’t get addicted. It was originally labeled as non-addictive.

    We are to the point where we accept PTSD (etc) as a real diagnosis. Now we have to take it one step further – Pain from PTSD is real pain.

  16. Will Avatar
    Will

    Simon, they perceive Dragon Chasing as the pursuit of physical or pharmaceutical pleasure without regard for consequence. I know that most who try recreational drugs do not become addicted or obsessed with getting high. If we legalize drugs, are we going to let those who turn them into self destructive behavior suffer publicly, so impressionable young people will clearly see the risks? They already see and hear of some of the pleasures. Can those suffering the PTSD you describe tell us, for how many of them: which came first, the PTSD or the altered state from the drug(s) that they now need to combat it?

    I am for legalization because I believe the benefits outweigh the risks but I understand those who do not. Just as I can never belong to a group, some will never be able to accept that the risks they feel exist can possibly be outweighed by monetary and human costs. Call it a circuitry problem.

  17. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Will,

    Actually the genetics came first. Only about 20% of the population is subject to long term PTSD. Of those 1/2 get the potential activated. The most common activation method being child abuse.

    You might find this helpful:

    PTSD and the Endocannabinoid System

  18. Will Avatar
    Will

    Ashley Roachclip’s Rebuttal meets The Onion. If we are just talking marijuana the costs of prohibition vs results are becoming quite clear. However for those who derive power, money, status, and jobs from that prohibition,there can be no retreat and no admission of failure or error.

  19. […] new trend fits in with the new and evolving view of the war on drugs as a war on pain relief. (See M. Simon’s recent post, and my typical posts on the […]