Many of you know of my disdain for Christian “outreach” due to a long ago set of incidents when I was attending public schools. Well that was a long time ago and does not explain why that attitude of mine has not been more severely attenuated. So bear with me. I’m going to tell a story.
Suppose we found out that the Drug War is really a War On People In Pain. The evidence is pretty good and the medical profession mostly operates on that assumption these days (drug taking is self medication). But just to get that part out of the way let us assume it is true.
At this point the general population is mostly ignorant of the above facts. That can not last indefinitely. What happens to all the churches (Catholics I’m looking at your Pope on this one) and “Christian” supporters of the policy? Well making war on the sick and infirm violates the Love and Compassion tenets of the Christian Religion. Very fundamental stuff. How will you ever live that down? When asked for God’s mercy you beat his children with a stick.
Well you know how it will go down. Religion, already weakening in America, will be going down. Hard.
So take all my carping as a warning. A Jeremiad if you will.
Repent before it is too late.
Me? As much as I despise organized religion, at this point in time I don’t see a replacement on the horizon. Besides I’m sort of a conservative. I’d rather patch the broken parts of the current system rather than go off in a completely radical new direction. Which is what you usually get from massive institutional fail.
This change will have to be done enough ahead of the change in popular understanding so as not to be seen as a reaction to it but leading it. After all the Church is supposed to be a leader in morality. So we are told. What happens when it is seen as a follower? Sauve qui peut.
I see practically no chance of my proposed change happening. Pity. Maybe Facebook will take up the slack.
Comments
27 responses to “A Dagger Pointed At The Heart Of The Church”
The problem is that the average Christian in America in 2011 has more in common with the Pharisees of 2000 years ago than they do with Jesus. One would think that after 2000 years, this wouldn’t be the case.
Just sayin’.
Generally I’m with you on decriminalizing drug use. But I wonder if we are discounting the science behind addiction for our own political beliefs. To follow your logic it seems the country has suddenly witnessed an epidemic of PTSD. Why here and not China or Japan? Is our culture that destructive?
My long deceased Great Aunt raised in the Victorian era lived long enough to see the 60’s. She said drug use was simply indulgence. That’s what the church still sees.
The Victorian dictum: Self-indulgence leads to dissipation.
I’ll bring this up at the next meeting of Christians. But don’t get your hopes up, most of the Christians I know still support Obama, which puzzles me even more.
Most of the Christians I know would make the Founding Fathers seem liberal, so I guess which crowd you run with makes a difference.
I am not going to waste time trying to explain how convoluted your argumentation is . . . we would only be able to communicate meaningfully after you do several semesters of theology, recent history (the Drug War), and the history of the Church writ large. Your biases are based on very much the same silly nonsense, ad hominem, and personal anecdoctal evidence that the left and communists use as a matter of fact. I came to this site originally because it seemed refreshing clear of such thinking.
Simon, get a flipping grip. You are ignorant of the history of the Church writ large (that is, beyond mere denominational bias), your history of the who’s and why’s and wherefore’s of the Drug War reveal either a willful ignorance, or an ax to grind. Your words strongly suggest the latter, which minimizes anything you say.
Randy—I suggested you get an argument.
I still do.
I look at your sidebar and I see sites I read regularly and they never jump off a cliff like the Drug War, blaming the Church. They know where the problem lies, and they address it.
My suggestion (and given your stated mindset it won’t amount to much) . . .
Get over yourself, and understand who started, and perpetuates the Drug War. Despite your accusations, it is not the gentle folks in the pew you blame for everything (it is there you betray your real intent).
Gummint, if you have paid attention, is your target. Aim there. First order of business in war. At the least, know your target!
And if the SHTF in your life, those folks in the pews you have ridiculed without cause, will be the first to come help you anyway.
That’s the way the “Church”—organized or not, has always been.
You have smeared many folks with your self-indulgent attempt to get back at the Church for some implied insult in your youth.
Pretty damned juvenile.
[…] I had let it go, and then this idiocity. […]
JB:
Who supports politicians who fund the drug war, atheist left wingers who smoke dope, or church going Christians? I seem to recall it took off after a certain right wing church going president started a campaign to just say no, followed by ever increasing mandatory sentencing laws and SWAT teams. I haven’t heard any push back from your church going, salt of the earth, pew sitters. Just the opposite in fact. And that goes for pew sitters in South Central LA. It crosses party and racial lines.
Like M.Simon says much of it is driven by actual human trauma – abused children, Vietnam vets, even psychotic disorders – a long list. There is such hypocrisy in this area. Doctors recognize illness and prescribe. When people self-proscribe, they are turned into criminals.
But a lot of people simply like to get high. Recreational use is equally criminalized. And that’s where your moralistic, church going people just can’t let it alone. Remember the Women’s Christian Temperance Union (WCTU) meeting in the parlor of the Methodist Church? I do. Cary Nation and her hatchet? Can’t let anyone enjoy themselves now can we. Demon rum, filthy nicotine, marijuana, cocaine, opium – it’s a long list with one common theme: if it gives you pleasure or soothes your soul and it’s NOT Jesus, then it must be stamped out. This is an area where the blame falls directly on misguided puritanism handed down from our inception as a country. And the Christian Church is the source.
Neo-Puritans are Prog/Commie Leninists turned inside out. If only we could find the real Lenin!!1!!1!
You do, Frank.
You support the flipping gummint that does these things.
And you really need a history lesson on “puritanism.”
Sweet Jesus, has the present generation become so ignorant of history that it no longer exists in their minds?
And Frank, Simon, and you other wizards, had you taken the time to search my site, you would find my take on drugs is light years ahead of yours. I let you walk into the trap thus far, and clueless, you bought the farm.
I know how this bullshit started, who started it, and why it is still maintained. It has nothing to do with the Church, and everything to do with the assholes in DC. If you are so flipping dense that you blame the Church for that, I can easily forgive you. If you are knowingly, like the commies and libs and the various other an assorted atheirst, working to erect a wall over against the faith, then . . .
I call you out. None of you have offered a cogent argument that would pass Logic 101. You whine with your feelings, which is what most of you have been taught to do.
If that is your intent, and all you aspire to accomplish, then you deserve the result you have. But if you intend to degrade the one institution that despite every aberration of gummint of siciety has been there to help others, and then, in some backdoor manner, try to put the blame on them, then I will call you out.
None of the issues you raise are a result of the “church” per se, but only individuals. As to the Vietnam War, you really need to get educated. The temperance movement, likewise. I addressed denominational/political crossovers (the very thing most get about Obama, for instance, but since you are getting an exhilarating ride on your (and Simon’s) hobby horse, you are riding right past what I said.
Gummint started, perpetuates, funds, and engages the war on drugs.
Get IT RIGHT. Sheesh. Classical Values? Yeah, sure! I now understand how Reagan felt at Reykjavík, when he was boxed in by an impossible demand. He walked.
I am doing the same You guys fight it out. Daily Kos at least works at logic and argumentation, and that is saying something!
You read this shit, and you understand why they are looking for someone ELSE to blame.
When libs, the GOP, libertarians, and every other special interest group gets over itself and their fixation to the gummint tit, then we might make progress.
Simon shifted blame to the church, and like faithful acolytes, the rest of you followed in lemming-like fashion.
It will solve zero problems and merely create more divisions, a tactic Dems and unions know well.
But go for it. No skin off my back.
jb,
I have studied the drug war for 40+ years.
Here is the conclusion I have come to:
People in chronic pain chronically take pain relievers.
The problem is that pain from PTSD is not politically recognized as real pain. Except (for the most part) by people who have it.
Not to worry jb. If the Church in America doesn’t fix this pronto it will be destroyed. A police detective friend says the churches (and all the rest) have about 5 years until we see legalization.
If that is correct then the churches (as a mass as opposed to individual congregations) have about a year maybe two to change their tune. I don’t think they can work that fast. Churches are conservative.
In fact the Churches were better positioned re: slavery than they are re: Drug Prohibition. I have looked and even congregations opposed to Prohibition are sparse on the ground. Let alone church organizations. Nothing like the the opposition to slavery.
Religion in America will be hit hard. People will be asking: where was the ministering to those suffering? Where were the calls to “end it” as there were for slavery?
And then I will go even further – the root cause (mostly) is child abuse. If genetically about 20% of the population is susceptible and 10% of those have a drug “problem” then what we are dealing with is an epidemic of child abuse.
Where are the churches on child abuse? Missing in action when 1/2 the susceptible population are victims.
All this will come out and people will be asking: “where were the churches?”. MIA. The churches have a duty to protect the vulnerable. And yet we see for the most part churches have joined in the persecution. They will not recover.
OH. Yeah. The Left is right now on the ropes. This will put them back in power.
As far as I can tell – barring mass repentance on the part of church organizations – there is no way to prevent the train wreck.
So what religious organizations are in the lead on this? Unitarians and Reform Jews. Both very liberal (politically). This does not bode well for Republicans.
Well. It was a nice country while it lasted.
jb,
I have an anecdote for you:
I knew a sheriff (via e-mail) who was a very devout Christian who had your attitude. When I got through to him (it took about a week of constant e-mailing) he was deeply ashamed of what he had done. I told him that it was not his fault as the understanding (generally) was not out there.
It is nearly 10 years on since I made my discovery and started publicizing it.
I have made progress. I have the doctors (the profession is a little slower). Next I will get everyone else. (I’m already up to 40% to 45%).
=====
When the turn comes the question for the churches will be “Why weren’t you protecting the vulnerable? Why did you join in the persecution?”
At this point the blindness can only be willful. Or as Max Plank put it:
“A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.” – Max Planck
The Churches in America are dead. They just don’t know it.
jb,
Light years ahead? I doubt it. As far as I can tell I was the first blogger to start the discussion re: trauma and drug abuse.
I’d probably know of you if you were an early adopter.
===
And jb. Your argument is not with us. It is with your church.
And calling me a lefty? Well that is rather funny. I was a communist a way long time ago. I haven’t been in that camp at least since I voted for Ron Paul in ’88. But I know it well. From the inside.
The sickness is not right/left in this country. It is “power and control” vs “leave us alone”. And “leave us alone” is winning.
Frank August 29th, 2011,
It may be the immigrant nature of the country and the type of immigrants it attracts.
i.e. our higher rates may be due to the genetic make up of our population. But at this point in time all I have is a hunch.
Frank,
It could also be caused by harsher living conditions. Have you looked at the alcohol consumption rates in the early 1800s? The numbers are astounding. And yet they declined without Prohibition.
Put some flame to the hornet’s nest.
Out they come. Mac was right. You guys are so righteous it is incomparable, and rather than back up and actually study an issue, you blindly stumble forth as dumb as those in any “cause.”
As to the Church (I’d really like a definition of Church from you gents, since it is clear you are clueless) . . . be assured, the Church is alive and well and prospering. We always will be, and especially when the hornets emerge from their nests, as have y’all. You do us good, rather than the harm you intend.
Simon, get over yourself. If you do, your acolytes will fall in line, and you can find a new thread and a new group upon which to rail.
EOS.
The Great Blue Marble
Crystal Beauty Incarnate
Splintering to swords
As Angels weep
M.Simon:
It may be the immigrant nature of the country and the type of immigrants it attracts.
Now I resent that. Just because my ancestors were Irish is no reason to single out us Whiskey drinkers!
(You may have hit on it.)
“our higher rates may be due to the genetic make up of our population”
thank you margret sanger.!!11
OK,
Let us start with the Churched. All those Christians in Congress who vote repeatedly for Prohibition.
All the voters who vote for them.
Nominally the country is 80% Christian. Maybe more. Who is voting for these mopes? Why isn’t their religion instructing them on the morality of punishing the traumatized?
But again:
Where are your links? I have checked with Google and the only orgs against the Drug War in any way are UU and the Reform Jews. The UU goes all the way and the Jews have their toe in the water.
If the Church is against the Drug War (the Pope likes it) give me some links. Anything.
I have said I have seen no evidence of Church involvement. So how about some links? You know. Evidence that I’m mistaken or missed something.
Send me a link to the last sermon at your church denouncing in any way the Drug War. Even pro med pot (supported by 85% of Americans) would do.
I have asked here and at your site for links. Are we to take it you have none?
There was definitely a move among some Churches back in the Day to end slavery. Where are they when it comes to punishing the traumatized? A link or thirty (since they are so prevalent) would be good.
Show me how much I missed. Or how ignorant I am when it comes to using Google. So far I have seen nothing but attitude from you. I’d like to see some links. After all my complaint is that I can’t find any.
“Have you looked at the alcohol consumption rates in the early 1800s? The numbers are astoundingAnd yet they declined without Prohibition.”
Put simply: They changed the cultural attitude toward alcohol page 315 “Broke” glenn beck
“Where are they when it comes to punishing the traumatized?”
a libtard has to find a victim to defend
“Where are your links? ”
where are your arguments?
“the morality of punishing the traumatized?”
create your own victim class nice. you libtards are amazing.
hey way back when the gov’t employees made me listen to jezus. now i take out on the church ’cause the gov’t employess did sumthing i think but gov’t is good if we had more needle exchange progg idiot
[…] A Dagger Pointed At The Heart Of The Church, I decried the lack of Church involvement in ending the Drug War. I said (in a round about […]
Heh.