I keep reading and hearing that Barack Obama is thinking of reneging on his campaign pledge to close Gitmo, and the issue came up in this often wry PJTV discussion between Glenn Reynolds and Michelle Malkin.
In light of the horrific events still unfolding in Mumbai, coupled with recently discovered plans to launch a terrorist attack against New York’s Penn Station, I think shutting down Gitmo would be a distinct no-no, and is not likely to be in the offing.
For readers who want to catch up on the Mumbai attacks, José Guardia has a veritable ton of links, and I highly recommend going to his post (which Glenn Reynolds linked earlier), and checking them out.
It’s a real horror show, and I hate to sound like a scold and say that America needed another wakeup call, but human nature is to forget what is unpleasant, and many Americans seem to have an emotional need to deny the war on terror out of existence the way they might use a remote to change an unappreciated TV channel. Big mistake.
Anyway, this report makes it 100% clear who it is the terrorists want dead. You and me, that’s who!
The Associated Press reports one of the rescued hostages told reporters he had seen many bodies inside the hotel. He did not give his name.
Indian TV, meanwhile, reports government officials fear the death toll at the Taj Mahal hotel could be high, with as many as 80-90 bodies inside. Some of the dead appear to have been killed by the gunmen, while others may have died in subsequent explosions and fires.
Among the bodies removed are those of Australian, Japanese and British nationals.
A senior U.S. State Department official told FOX News that it could not yet confirm whether any Americans are among the casualties.
Meanwhile, Indian police reportedly are negotiating with gunmen holding hostages at the ultra-orthodox Jewish Chabad Lubavitch Center.
There were unconfirmed reports that some of the hostages at the Oberoi hotel are Israeli nationals.
Bottom line:
The attackers specifically targeted Britons, Americans and Israelis at the hotels and restaurant, witnesses said.
Did we really need this reminder that we are still at war, and the enemy wants us dead?
On Thanksgiving?
According to this gruesome report, a lot of chef trainees were massacred:
Earlier, explosions rattled the nearby Taj Hotel, a 105-year-old city landmark on the waterfront, as the troops flushed out the last of the militants there. Fire and smoke plumed from an open window.
“The commandos are in control,” Dipak Dutta told NDTV news after being rescued. As the troops escorted him through the corridors, they told him not to look down at any of the bodies.
“A lot of chef trainees were massacred in the kitchen.”
At least six foreigners, including one Australian, a Briton, an Italian and a Japanese national were killed.
Those who survived told harrowing stories of close encounters.
At the risk of sounding like a fascist, my reaction is that Gitmo is too good for these murderers.
Anyway, despite his campaign pledge (made when it was forgotten by the voters that we are at war), I don’t think shutting it down will be at the top of Barack Obama’s priority list.
Of course, there’s always the question of what to tell the delusional anti-war activists who constitute Obama’s base. As José notes, 32% of the American voters favor closing Gitmo, and while that was before the Thanksgiving reminder, there always remains that stubbornly delusional hard core of true believers in what they want to believe without regard to truth. (What are they? The True WannaBelievers?)
They’re so delusional that maybe they have an emotional need to have the issues reframed for them. In that respect, I rather enjoyed the link José provided to a CNN story describing the Iraq War as a “humanitarian mission!” Said José,
YOU were right, Glenn; as soon as Obama got elected, the media would change its tune on Iraq.
Not that I’d expect CNN to credit Glenn Reynolds with the idea, but hey, I guess whatever works, right?
My suggestion is that they do a similar reframing job with Gitmo. However, I don’t think they should use the phrase “reeducation camp.” That sounds too orthodox Maoist, and old-fashioned. Perhaps in line with the peace-and-love Kumbaya theme, it could be called the “Guantanamo Interfaith Outreach Center and Work Study Hostel.”
Or if that’s too much of a wishy-washy mouthful, maybe the “Guantanamo Sensitivity Training Center.” By any standard, Islamist terrorists certainly have a lot to learn sensitivity-wise, and I think they need huge doses of um, therapy (possibly including “tough love” in recalcitrant cases). Not only are they are dreadfully sexist and ferociously anti-gay, but the number two man in Al Qaeda recently revealed deeply rooted racism when he hurled a racial insult at Barack Obama.
Furthermore, there’s obviously a glut of sensitivity trainers, who are wasting valuable time forcing people into training who don’t need it, like the college professor discussed here. How silly can we be, wasting such talent when the country needs them at Gitmo?
So let’s get on with the reframing.
MORE: Phyllis Chesler has a comprehensive analysis of the Mumbai news so far, and asks a good question:
The West and non-Muslims around the world, have chosen to treat each attack separately, and not as part of a global war. What else will Islamic fundamentalists have to do to be dealt with as the enemy army they truly are?
I don’t know, but it strikes me that sitting around waiting to find out what’s on the next episode has not worked very well.
UPDATE: My thanks to Glenn Reynolds for the link, and a warm welcome to all!
Your comments are appreciated.
For ongoing developments, don’t miss José’s latest roundup of innumerable news reports (which Glenn linked) — including one about two Americans from Virginia being killed, as well as five hostages at the Jewish center.
Comments
19 responses to “Don’t renege. Reframe!”
Barrack Obama will need to keep the stick handy if he is to survive the first six months of testing.
Diplomacy and talking is considered weakness/cowaredly by these factions.
The tests will escalate.
Calling it a Sensitivity Training Center is brilliant! No less a personage than Barack himself has identified the issue facing the terrorists (militants? freedom fighters? Minutemen?) as a lack of empathy.
Hugh, Steve, thank you.
And Happy Thanksgiving!
I can only laugh. It will be quite amusing to watch the contortions of the MSM as they justify Obama for continuing the same policies they excoriated Bush for.
What is the over/under on a Republican Congress and Obama impeachment by June 2011?
Gitmo is too good for these murderers.
Death is too good for these fanatics.
Hell, on the other hand, seems just about right.
I wonder if the NY Times or Human Rights Watch is going to be bothered about these murderers not respecting the Geneva Convention rights of the kitchen staff.
“…have chosen to treat each attack separately, and not as part of a global war.”
This is a common tactic used in any instance where one wishes to avoid the truth of a whole matter. Address a series of actions or facts as unconnected or unrelated incidents (or as politicians do, deny categorically.) It helps in erasing the lines that connect the dots.
“Barrack Obama will need to keep the stick handy if he is to survive the first six months of testing.”
“Gird your loins!” ~ Joseph Biden (October 19, 2008)
I get the distinct feeling that Obozo’s default response to Islamic terror committed against the US will be to drop to his knees and open his mouth.
Some folks require regular, harsh incidents to concentrate the mind. The rest of us know and remember reality with no effort at all.
I know I’m not the only one who remembers 9/11 and thinks of the GWOT every single day. Thanks again to those who serve to protect us.
This is s conundrum! I am very much afraid that the fires and explosions in the hotels may have destroyed important evidence The Hague will need to mount an effective prosecution for these alleged acts. What to do?
But you don’t understand! If we weren’t such a bunch of racist fascists, the islamists would be petting bunnies and handing out flowers! And this just proves what evil people we are!
I flat guarantee you’ll be hearing that shortly, if they aren’t selling it already; it’s so much more pleasant than facing the fact these dirtbags want us converted, dhimmi or dead(and would prefer dead). And it lets the believers flagellate themselves and feel noble about their condemnation of, well, everyone except the enemy.
Some people just refuse to believe that there are others out there that want to kill us, and until they are confronted by those others, in a life or death situation, they will never belive. Unfortunately, by then it’s often too late for them.
As for sensitivity traing, it’s strictly a CYA move by the university or company, only the most naive believe that Death by Powerpoint classes will change anyone’s atittudes. It also comes down to the leaders at the lowest level both instilling a professional and respectful atmosphere, as well as telling the thin skinned to toughen up against purely imagined slights.
“I wonder if the NY Times or Human Rights Watch is going to be bothered about these murderers not respecting the Geneva Convention rights of the kitchen staff.”
Racist!
Just kidding, of course. The Left loves terrorism and loves jihad. The Left considers these victims mere collateral damage in the destruction of Capitalism, the extermination of the Jews, and triumph of the Left/Islam.
May G-d curse every Leftist.
It’s racist to call Obama a reneger.
…many Americans seem to have an emotional need to deny the war on terror out of existence the way they might use a remote to change an unappreciated TV channel.
Where the MSM is concerned there is a political need as well as an emotion one. Thus the near non-stop lying and distortion by our self-anointed moral and intellectual betters for nearly eight years. In fact, the meme from the Far Left and the MSM (but I repeat myself) is that these attacks “prove” that the Bush administration has failed.
Some conservatives have taken great pleasure from the fact that the Messiah has appeared to flip-flop on Iraq and Gitmo. I would point out that even if the Chosen One were to adopt the Bush policy chapter and verse (which He appears to be doing) we cannot assume he would be as successful. The Chosen One – like the MSM and the rest of the Democrat Party – is completely unserious about Islamofascism. Like the Indian government they think it is a law-enforcement matter. Competence does matter, and the more the MSM hyperventilates about the Messiah’s supposed high intelligence the more I am convinced that he is dumber than Gomer Pyle (except that fictional Pyle actually served his country in the USMC, while the Messiah has only served Himself).
The issue of concern with Guantanamo Bay is not that “we’re being mean to known terrorists”. The issues are:
– The indefinite lock-up of people, about whom we don’t know if they are responsible for any terrorist acts or plans; and
– The application of torture to find out. (Don’t forget: The reason that torture is a bad idea is not just that it hurts, but that it produces unreliable information. If someone started to torture me, I would confess to having strangled to death my great-great-great-great grandmother, 5 minutes before her birth. Impossible? Yes. Would I confess to it? If it would stop the torture…)
As it turns out, effective interrogation is one of those skills, like groundfighting or the secret language of horses; that is nearly lost every generation and has to be regularly relearned by governments and organizations and people.
Effective interrogation requires both kindness, rapport, threats, intimidation, A certain limited knowledge of certain facts by the interrogators, and occasionally actual harm to make good on the threats.
As has been mentioned, you can’t just torture someone and hope to come up with the right facts because if you hurt someone enough they will say anything. One has to know something first, so as to determine truth from lies when asking about topics that you already have some knowledge about – then you can punsh lies and reward truth. Gradually one gets details that one didn’t know, and one has to have the team outside verify them in the real world. Lather, rinse, repeat the cycle.
Unfortunately, that kind of interrogation takes longer than you can fit on an hour-long television show.
Why aren’t the perpetrators of school shootings sent to Guantanamo? Why aren’t child rapists tortured and executed without trial? If someone is videotaped murdering someone else, why have a trial? Why don’t cops just shoot them dead at the scene of the crime?
Because we believe in laws, the constitution and due process. Why this is a debatable point is beyond me. It’s not the heinousness of the act that should shape society’s response. This is not the time of Hammurabi.
Right-wingers are barbarians masquerading as defenders of “classical values.”
I love these comments, but I feel obliged to answer the guy who thinks I’m a barbarian masquerading as a defender of “classical values.”
“Franglosaxon” seems unable to distinguish between acts of terrorism (which is a form of warfare) and ordinary crime.
Perpetrators of school shootings, child rapists, murderers, etc. are regular criminals, and are not trained combatants engaged in an organized struggle to achieve defined goals or victories of a military nature.
The constitution and due process apply to them (assuming the school shooters aren’t shot by the cops first in the heat of battle), if they are in the United States.
That answers this question:
Why aren’t the perpetrators of school shootings sent to Guantanamo?
But there’s an additional answer. They can’t be sent anywhere, because they’re usually dead. If the rest of their victims are lucky, it’s because the “cops just shoot them dead at the scene of the crime.”
It’s called the heat of battle. Also defense of others. And, yes, even self defense!
I’d hate to think that only barbarians are in favor of such things.