Here’s a Scandanavian study with results which strike me as counterintuitive, as well as stereotype-defying. Apparently, lesbian couples there have a divorce rate more than triple that of gay men.
While the study has been cited by organizations opposing same sex marriage as ammunition for the argument that compared to heterosexual couples, gay couples have a higher incidence of breaking up, what surprised me was the large disparity between lesbians and gay men.
The traditional stereotype is that it’s the man who runs off, so I would expect the gay men to be less loyal to their partners.
Anyone know what might explain this? I know that Norway and Sweden aren’t the United States, but we’re talking about Western countries, with cultures similar enough that unless there’s something I’m missing, I think the same pattern would probably hold here.
What I can’t figure out is why.
More marriage, more divorce?
by
Tags:
Comments
15 responses to “More marriage, more divorce?”
All the lesbian couples I’ve known have had a girl lesbian and a guy lesbian, and the guy lesbian was jealous and power-tripping.
Gay male couples seem more about mutual respect.
It is just anecdotal, but if the above examples generlly hold true I think that would explain it.
Interesting. I was also just reminded of another factor — that lesbians are much more likely to jump into commitment early, whereas gay men tend to avoid commitments, and if the latter do hook up it’s only after considerable reflection (and probably a longer “test run”).
Women tend to want to marry, while men tend to be more reluctant. (Paired off as couples, these factors would be expected to be increased.) Many gay men have never had a longterm live-in relationship, but most lesbians have. It makes sense, and I should have thought about it a little more. It would account for the more stable nature of gay male longterm relationships, because they are “pre-screened” with not much to hold them together.
There’s a lesbian joke that goes like this:
Q: What does a lesbian bring on her second date?
A: A U-Haul.
If it is confirmed, this tendency might explain why so much of the push for same sex marriage comes from lesbians.
Whoops, I forgot the second part to the last joke:
Q. What did the gay man bring on his second date?
A. What second date?
rofl!
Maybe we’ve been focusing on the sex of the cheater, not the cheatee. Instead of men being more likely to cheat, maybe partners of whatever sex are more likely to cheat on women than men. Hence lesbian couples, with two woemen, produce much more cheating than gay male couples, with none.
Or this could just be a dumb idea. Your call. I’m going to bed.
Don’t ask me. I’m just a transsexual woman who was unable to keep up the guy act, and so is now in a same-sex marriage with the mother of my child.
Neither of us are Lesbian, but there’s far more to marriage than sex.
We are under intense governmental pressure to divorce – for example, the government denies me a passport while I’m married, and I can’t get my birth certificate changed. But we’re co-parents, and still love each other.
Great comments. (I went to bed safely before the stroke of midnight, though, so I didn’t see them until this morning.)
I hadn’t thought about the “more likely to cheat on women” tendency, but I don’t think it’s a dumb idea at all. In fact, I’ll add a supplemental (possibly dumb) idea. I’m wondering whether might be an additional factor — those women who encourage cheating by prividing opportunities for potential cheaters. Suppose their goal is more than a one-night-stand (which is more typically a male activity). Might they not be more attracted to persons of whatever sex who are already in relationships with women? If the goal is to replace the woman, this might account for a higher rate of that type of cheating that would lead to breakups among lesbian couples.
(In my experience, not too many women are interested in being “home wreckers” where it comes to gay male couples.)
To supplement that last comment, I’ve noticed that women are much more likely to flirt with men in a stable relationship with a woman than they are with single men. I don’t think this is irrational, as the presence of the other woman is evidence that the man has that potential (which not all men do).
I don’t have the answers, but that doesn’t mean the questions shouldn’t be raised.
Zoe, you’re unique in that you’ve truly been on both sides. I’m wondering…have you noticed any flirting of the type I’ve mentioned in either direction?
Is there a possibility that men are just more likely to be better companions (gay or not) with one another than women are with each other? If you get into a fight with your drinking buddies you’re far more likely to have a laugh about it the next day (over more drinks) then a woman who gets into a fight with another woman would. I mean, I haven’t had any issues with my groomsmen 8 months after my wedding yet my wife is on bad terms with at least 3 of her bride’s maids (not my wife’s fault ^^).
So in turn I can see woman/woman relationships much more intense or troubled at times than a man/man relationship.
Zoe, your comment confused me. Why does the government deny you a passport while you are married? I’ve not applied for a passport for 20 years, so I don’t remember anything about that process except visiting an endless stream of consulates and bureaucrats. Are you in the US?
Also, why do you need to change your birth certificate? I didn’t know that was ever done. Or is it that there’s nothing analogous to filling out a name change form at the courthouse that you can do with a sex change?
I can’t remember the joke, but there it is something about lesbian relations and moving trucks on the second date.
Women are more interested in getting into permanent relationships. You’d think that would mean they would stay in them longer, but they don’t. The reality is that they’re not as careful as they should be (and as men are) so if there is no male cautiousness involved, it is logical to assume they’d get into relationships too soon (even marriage), resulting in a higher divorce rate.
Women WANT to fall in love and create an idyllic relationship, but that takes time. You have to date for a long time to be sure you’ve found the right person.
Might marriage be an intrinsically sexist institution designed primarily to protect women?
From the post
Apparently, lesbian couples there have a divorce rate more than triple that of gay men.
Um, no. Read the paragraph bridging pages 15 and 16 and table 4.
Eric : rather than “being on both sides”, it’s more like being on neither.
You’re a guy, right? Now imagine if at age 12 you had started your first period, were slowly getting an hourglass figure, but otherwise felt much the same as you do now. The body would feel hideously uncomfortable, your brain’s structure, and the instincts in the hindbrain, would be mismatched to the body.
Oh yes – almost no testosterone, so probably less interest in “other” girls. Your only chance of having a son would be to get involved with another guy, and that would feel totally un-natural. But acceptable to everyone, society etc. Get involved with “other” girls, and you’d be called a Dyke etc etc. Ironic, really.
About 25% of people with this condition kill themselves before age 25. Those who seek treatment for it are looked upon as freaks by most.
Don’t worry, despite being able to fake being a male reasonably well (having the body of a footballer helped enormously), I have never understood guys at all. We’d be having a “bull session”, I’d feel comfortable, then some guy would say something, everyone would agree, and I’d be thinking “HOW THE HECK CAN ANYONE THINK LIKE THAT???”. I assumed they had to be doing the usual male competitive BS, but now I’m convinced they were just being guys.
CTDeLude: I’m in Australia, different rules.
I was born in the UK, and due to my medical anomalies, have an F type UK passport, but a UK birth certificate marked “Boy”.
By UK law, no-one who is married can have their BC changed.
By Australian law, anyone who is “transgendered”, that is, with inconsistent appearance from their documentation, is not permitted a passport. Yes, a Human Rights violation, but compared with most things Transsexuals and the Intersexed have to put up with, par for the course, really.
In the US, people like myself who do not conceal our condition are 17 times more likely to be murder victims than the average. Young Black males, the next highest minority group, are only 3 times more likely than the average.
Birth certificates are the primary form of ID, and can be changed in most states of the US, though not Texas, Ohio, or Tennessee IIRC. It means that a lesbian couple can get legally married in Texas, providing one of them has been treated for Harry Benjamin’s Syndrome (Transsexuality) and thus remains legally male in Texas, if not their home state.
1 in 2500 women in the US weren’t born with female bodies. 1.7% of the general population have some degree of Intersex condition, though only for 1 in 1000 is it obvious except to a thorough medical examination and chromosome scan.
Oddly enough, those with this kind of problem tend not to publicise it. Most try to live in “stealth”, hiding their past, once they’ve had treatment.
A few women don’t, as the chances of being beaten up by police are now are quite low – the last publicised incident was back in July. Quite a few guys too.
My own story is a little unusual, something that only happens to about 1 in 1000 people with HBS. You see, a lot of us can live with it, despite the discomfort, at least for a few decades. It’s certainly under-reported, no-one knows how many of us there are.