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February 08, 2010
Looking At Light
Anthony Watts has a great article up on how he changed out a fixture that used a CFL Flood Lamp to one using an LED lamp. Anthony bought 5 LED fixtures and got a deal. He paid $80.00 each for them. So let us run some numbers.
For 50,000 hours You pay $31.25 capital In 50,000 hours you save 150,000 Wh or 150KWh with the LED fixture. The LED fixture costs $48.75 more than 5 CFLs . If your electricity costs less than 32.5¢ a KWh The CFLs are a better deal. On new construction or when replacing a fixture the cost of the fixture enters the picture. Don't forget to figure out what it is worth in time and hassle changing bulbs more often vs installing a fixture. Another point is that you can dim the LEDs and the CFLs do not dim. Dimming the LEDs should add to their life since ordinary LED lifetime is roughly proportional to current. Not only that: light output per watt goes up at lower currents. My advice to cheapskates? At 10¢ a KWh wait until you can buy one for $45 or less. A couple of CFLs should see you through. Those are the economic issues - roughly. As Anthony points out there are other considerations. And thank you Antony for being an early adopter. It will help bring the price down to one I can afford. Cross Posted at Power and Control posted by Simon on 02.08.10 at 02:56 AM
Comments
Since all CFLs are made in china, I have a large stockpile of standard bulbs that are not made there to use for a nice long time. RT · February 8, 2010 10:01 AM Another aspect of CFLs that is not often considered but should be is how long one leaves the lights on and how frequently they are turned on and off. Turning a CFL on and off with a frequency of more than once or twice a day degrades the lifespan significantly. This is because the ballast wears out a little, from heating and then cooling, every time you turn the light on and then off. Also, the the ballast requires a significant surge every time you turn on a CFL. The package might say 7 watts but the ballast can pull over a hundred and up to three hundred watts for up to a minute after you flick the light on. Thus, if you flick the light on for five minutes you pull about a hundred to three hundred watts for one minute and then seven watts for about four minutes plus you are wearing out the ballast. That doesn't always make sense vis a vis an incandescent. In terms of energy usage and total dollar cost, my experience is that CFL's make sense only where the lights are turned on once or maybe twice a day and left on for more than hour. Jardinero1 · February 8, 2010 11:03 AM @Jardinero1 - I don't know where you got those figures, but my testing, and Mythbusters' testing shows that the startup surge for pretty much anything but arc lamps is negligible. Startup surge for most lamps is a few milliseconds of run time. And the better quality lights don't have the high failure rate with cycling that the 69 cent specials do. @Simon - Where the hell are you getting electricity for 10 cents/kWh? Here in CT it's closer to 22 cents. brian · February 8, 2010 11:21 AM Does anybody know how much UV light a CFL puts out and how that amount would compare to being in the sun. harleycowboy · February 8, 2010 12:07 PM I liked this part the best: douglas2 · February 8, 2010 12:46 PM Brian, Mythbusters is a tv show. Get yourself a watt meter from Edmund Scientifics and try it yourself. Also, it is a fact that frequent heating and cooling of the ballast wears the ballast out. Jardinero1 · February 8, 2010 01:42 PM It is a matter of priorities. Some people can spend an extra $500 for a weekend project and never miss the money. Others may think it is expensive but enjoy activities like this. So they skip a couple of NFL games and buy the LEDs. I have a few LEDs around the homestead. And I was about to buy dimmable CFLs for the kitchen when I noticed the package said they should be kept on for 15 minutes at a time in order to get the bulb life rating. Forget that 15 minute BS. My experience with CFLs has not been that great anyway. They fail a lot, or did about 2 years ago. Better quality control may have reduced that problem Wait. In a couple more years you will be able to get LEDs bulbs in a wider variety of shapes. There will be no need to install new fixtures as Anthony did. And they will cost much less too. KTWO · February 8, 2010 01:45 PM In my experience, CFLs don't last nearly as long as advertised. With roughly 20 light fixtures using CFLs, I have to buy about 12 CFLs per year. My experience seems to be similar to other commenters - the on/off cycling seems to be the main issue. My ceiling fixtures need replacing every 3 years, but the desk lamps and floor lamps seem to burn out in 8-10 months. FWIW, I'm thinking about replacing my halogen recessed fixtures with LEDs, replacing them as they burn out. As luck would have it, the instant I made that decision, my halogens have stopped burning out. altoids · February 9, 2010 12:38 PM Give me incandescents any day. The warmth of light emanating from a regular old light bulb will never be duplicated by this other nonsense. Plus, now that the fear of AGW has pretty much been abandoned by everyone except the fruitcakes, there is no need to switch. I plan on buying many, many cases of normal light bulbs before the stupid new law takes effect. Former Lurker · February 10, 2010 11:10 AM Post a comment
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The light quality is not, ahh, fungible. I have a lot of wall washing indirect valence lighting that is 3500k 4 ft standard fluorescent. But for direct lighting anywhere near food - preparation or dining areas - make mine anything but CFL. A lot of CFL lighting has lousy light quality.
I'll wait a bit on LEDs - I certainly like the idea of once in a lifetime installation.