Classical Values :: A lingering worry I hope is groundless...

October 15, 2008

A lingering worry I hope is groundless...

While it still worries me, the Republican intraparty civil war I discussed in the last post isn't the civil war I'm most worried about.

Because of some of the heated rhetoric (as well as the heated rhetoric over heated rhetoric) lately, I sometimes worry about the possibility of things getting ugly after the election. Which is why (like Rick Moran and Glenn Reynolds) I'm going to accept the results of the election -- hopefully with as few recriminations as possible, bearing in mind that I do have a blog, and can't be expected not to offer my opinions. (And may they be as polite as possible.)

Seriously, the prospect of a real civil war is and must remain unimaginable. While philosophically I agree with Dave Winer about very little, I would agree with him that "this is not going to end well if we can't agree that whoever wins this election is our leader for the next four years, at a time when we desperately need leadership."

However, I would note that shrill and threatening rhetoric does not emanate solely from angry anonymous shouts in Republican crowds, but can be found even at the Obama campaign web site:

I will claim Obama as my president in November. If the McCain machine manages to officially "WIN" I will call for Obama to be the People's President. I mean this: I will not follow McCain through hell. I will start a movement of people who gather in Washington DC around Barack Obama and proclaim him THEIR PRESIDENT. If we have to fight a civil war over this, SO BE IT. If the "United" States splits into two countries, FINE BY ME. I'm not gonna support another administration full of CRIMINALS.

While views like that are hardly mainstream ones, I suspect there'd be many more people on the left talking that way if McCain were ten points ahead. In fact, when the race was much closer, a respected Philadelphia columnist said this:

If McCain wins, look for a full-fledged race and class war, fueled by a deflated and depressed country, soaring crime, homelessness - and hopelessness!

But if McCain loses? Frankly, despite my concerns about hogwash conspiracy theories, I'm hard pressed to find (aside from an occasional anonymous crank) anything resembling a conservative movement calling for riots, much less civil war. Most of the talk (like this) about conservative violence if Obama wins is coming from the left.

Nevertheless, I want to add my voice to those who would condemn even the thought of such a thing. I like to think that if a real civil war ever started, I'd do what Connie du Toit said she'd do:

I cannot imagine a situation reoccurring of that magnitude, or that fundamental a difference of opinion, that would be decided by war, not the voting booth.

So what WOULD be the causes for a "reset"?

The dissatisfaction with the outcome of an election? What would the war determine, in that case? That the outcome of a legal election was someone not liked enough by the minority of voters that they'd start shooting at their neighbors?

That's a breakdown of the Constitution, in the extreme, and a decision among a minority of people to not abide by the outcome of our democratic process. I don't care who the winner was, if a minority of people started shooting at others because they're sore losers, I'd start shooting at THEM, even if that made my bedfellows doctrinaire communists.

Last week the Congress essentially set aside the entirety of the Constitution and turned us into socialists. Not a single shot was fired, and that's a good thing. What SHOULD happen is that every Senator and Representative who voted "yes" should be booted from office, by The People of their respective states. But that won't happen, because the majority of people needed to do such a thing don't care, agree with the extra-Constitutional bailout bill, or don't seem to know how to vote in elections to get rid of the scoundrels.

Dean Esmay also put it quite well:

I will pull the lever for McCain/Palin in November. I will do so without the slightest hesitation or regret.

But if that evening, or the next morning, we learn that Barack Obama has won the Presidency, I will not lose not a wink of sleep. I will feel quite secure in the knowledge that the American people and the American system of government-which have always been flawed and imperfect and always will be-will continue to survive and thrive in the long run, even if we have tough times ahead. Because we always have tough times ahead, but this is the greatest country the world has ever known, and despite its many flaws our system of government works the way it's supposed to, and in general works very well indeed.

I agree, even though I can't say I will not lose a wink of sleep. We have a system, and in works in spite of -- and because of -- its flaws.

It's important to remember something that Assistant Village Idiot said yesterday:

None of us is virtuous enough to wield power, so the checks and balances, and especially our competing needs, prevents any of us from having too much authority over his fellows.

Yes, regardless of what we might think about either candidate, it's not as if we're electing a dictator. Notwithstanding the fact that many angry people believe we've been living under a "Bush dictatorship" for the past eight years, I predict that whoever wins the election will eventually do what Bush will do on January 20.

MORE: Weetabix comments below:

I know we're not electing a dictator. We're electing someone who feels comfortable ignoring the constitution and original intent.

I just figure Obama would ignore it faster and with more wholehearted cooperation from a socialist congress.

Excellent point, and a similar view was expressed in an email to Glenn Reynolds:

...we are on the verge of a total Democrat landslide and wipeout with all houses of Congress dominated by Democrats, big city governments dominated by Democrats, the President a Democrat, most State governors Democrats, most Washington DC bureaucrats faithful Democrats, and our news media and universities fully staffed with Democrats.

Why no alarm from you? Why not the type of messages urging the American populace to think twice about giving all the power? In your overall posts you have always been far more comfortable with Democrats than Republicans. Your preferences are seemingly well betrayed to be the opposite. However, your general tone of your website is much quicker to point to Republican power. And now it's clear Republicans won't have ANY power. None.

To this, Glenn answered,

Sorry if I come across as an Obama shill. He brings hope and change! But it's true that divided government is generally better, and that it's looking unlikely that we'll have that, unless McCain gets a sudden surge.

Domestically, I think we're best off with a Democratic President and a Republican Congress. On foreign affairs, maybe the reverse? I hope the GOP at least keeps enough of a margin in the Senate to sustain a filibuster now and then.

I agree, although I think the question "Why no alarm from you?" is perhaps being asked of the wrong person.

Glenn Reynolds is unfortunately not running for president and unless there's a last minute surprise being planned, he won't be pinch-hitting for McCain at tonight's debate.

The question should be, "Why no alarm from McCain?"

And, yes, "Why not the type of messages urging the American populace to think twice about giving all the power?"

Considering the electorate's historical penchant for divided government, it might be the best issue McCain has right now.

posted by Eric on 10.15.08 at 11:18 AM

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Comments

I blame the media for playing up and hyping the divisions. A vast majority of Americans get along just fine regardless of their political leanings, the problems are minor and fleeting. There's no worry about civil war, just a handful of loud people with an outsized loudspeaker and a media that likes it that way.

tim maguire · October 15, 2008 12:04 PM

I know we're not electing a dictator. We're electing someone who feels comfortable ignoring the constitution and original intent.

I just figure Obama would ignore it faster and with more wholehearted cooperation from a socialist congress.

Weetabix · October 15, 2008 01:07 PM

If Obama wins amidst massive voter fraud and blatant favoritism of the media and the Democrats dominate the Congress and the courts, as well as the Presidency and the Federal beaurocracy, what are the chances that we'll have another free and reasonably fair election?
Things will get ugly after this election, the only real question is just how ugly.

Catbert077 · October 15, 2008 01:15 PM

This has been on my door through many Wisconsin elections...

Lines For The Day After Elections

by Richard Armour

The sun still rises in the east
The song of skylarks has not ceased
The mountains stand, the seas are calm
I hear no detonating bomb

The banks are open, trains on time
The morning paper's rich with crime
A stream of traffic fills the street
The ground is firm beneath my feet

No cataclysmic conflagration
As yet has swept our luckless nation
No signs of doom have I detected
Although my man was not elected.

James · October 15, 2008 03:46 PM

Eric, I think you need to panic more.

Obama's primary constituencies are:
1)Radical "progressives", ACORN, etc.
2)The media, content providers (Hollywood, MSM)
3)unions
4)grievance groups (radical black activists, La Raza, NOW feminists, etc.)
5)Wall Street (the former black-shoe investment bankers, not the brown-shoe hedge funds)
6)eco-totalitarians

If we get a Democrat sweep this election, their primary business will be to satisfy these constituencies. Their top priorities will include:

1)the Fairness Doctrine--making it effectively illegal to criticize Democrats in any meaningful, public way. Probably including strict copyright provisions and "content control" to make Hollywood happy. Possibly even incorporating provisions against "racist" or "hate" speech.

2)increased taxes on business and capital gains--making it more and more difficult to get equity funding for new, "risky" technologies. This leads to...

3)onerous lending requirements--incorporate minority (and possibly environmental) set-asides into lending laws, which will effectively be administered by said grievance groups and eco-totalitarians. If you want to start or expand a business, you'll have to pay the "fixers".

4)the Obama "Tax Cut"--will effectively put the bottom 40% on the dole, with a sharply increased marginal tax rate once they reach about $35K income. This will have the same effect as the Great Society, creating a permanent, and growing, underclass.

There's more, but that's the most important stuff. The trick is that these policies create a self-reinforcing, interlocking, ever-growing constituency of tax-eaters.

In two years, we will live in a one-party socialist state, to all intents and purposes. If you doubt me, ask yourself this question--

Who would stop them?

Neil · October 15, 2008 06:27 PM

P.S.:

If you don't think they're slick enough to pull that off, be sure to read this top to bottom:

Obama and the Attempt to Destroy the Second Amendment

Excerpt:
"The Joyce directorate�s plan almost succeeded. The individual rights view won out in the Heller Supreme Court appeal, but only by 5-4. The four dissenters were persuaded in part by Joyce-funded writings, down to relying on an article which misled them on critical historical documents.

Having lost that fight, Obama now claims he always held the individual rights view of the Second Amendment, and that he �respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms.� But as a Joyce director, Obama was involved in a wealthy foundation�s attempt to manipulate the Supreme Court, buy legal scholarship, and obliterate the individual right to arms."

Neil · October 15, 2008 06:55 PM

I'm inclined to think that a total Democratic landslide is the end of meaningful elections in this country.

The conservatives look totally whipped to me. And Obama and Pelosi and company do not strike me as people who will let wounded opponents live.

Once elections are controlled by fraud and talk radio is ended with the fairness doctrine it is very hard to see how the incumbent regime will ever be dislodged.

Any idea that the fairness rule will be applied when the media favors Democrats is like belief in the Tooth Fairy.

The Supreme Court already has a very liberal bent. Kennedy plays the swing vote because it makes him feel personally important. And it has made him important.

Congress can remove any justice they dislike or enlarge the court. And Congress also has a great deal of unused power to limit the court's jurisdiction.

The filibuster in the Senate is only allowed by a rule. The majority party can abolish it at any time.

K · October 15, 2008 08:57 PM

If they want a war, let them come. My kinsmen ain't the type to look for violence, but they will not back down if pushed. They learned the hard way. Losing folks like they did in Cambodia and Burma can change your perspective quite drastically.

The kinfolks, Cambodians, Laotians, Karens, and Hmongs among them, really did learn some harsh lessons at the hands of the worst democidal governance. Now that they are armed and free, I doubt that they will back down from those who would threaten them with violence because their guy lost an election.

Blademonkey · October 16, 2008 12:56 AM

To hell with being graceful losers.

The liberals have showed us the way over the past ten years. Learn from them. Even if he carries every single state Obama is "NOT MY PRESIDENT." No matter what the vote totals, this election is "STOLEN." He's a crook, an idiot, a madman, and a puppet from the day he takes office. He's responsible for everything that goes wrong, everywhere on Earth for any reason. Anything short of perfection in anything is a TOTAL FAILURE.

Keep repeating it. Keep pounding it. Insert snide remarks about his intelligence, his morals, and his sanity into every conversation, no matter what the topic. Make liberals agree just to shut you up -- eventually they'll come to believe it.

Lie. Facts are only valuable to the degree they're useful. If the facts don't help, make shit up. Appeal to emotion, not reason -- a clever three-word slogan is worth a thousand pages of careful argument.

The liberals have destroyed reasoned debate, civility, and tolerance in politics. Let's show them what they've taught us. If it really is all about naked power, then for God's sake let's get that power for our side.

Trimegistus · October 16, 2008 11:12 AM