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April 21, 2008
A Novel Critique Of Life Prolongation
You may remember that four way debate on life extension over at Cato Unbound between Dan Callahan, Diana Schaub, Aubrey de Grey, and Ron Bailey. Nothing much came of it, except for the revelation that Diana Schaub gets a tad sanctimonious when her back is up. If deathlessness ever arrives for human beings, I would cast my lot with the elephants who are said to gather and grieve over the bones of their departed. Elephant culture might already have surpassed the culture of immortalists. Based on the posts so far, cultural ignorance -- of the history of religion and love and politics -- is one clear cost of the quest for a non-transcendent immortality. Huh. I'd wear a cap in her classroom every chance I got. Oh yeah, Callahan's opinion is pretty much value free. Now there's an old nag that's crying out for pasturing. I'd hoped for more. And wouldn't you know it, the universe came through for me. The discussion got picked up over at Volokh's, leading to a truly original insight in the comments section by some guy named Dangermouse. He pretty much set everyone straight on the error of their ways (Bad life extensionists! Bad! Bad!) with an appeal to higher authority that, quite frankly, left me croggled. See, the quest for extended youth is evil and pointless because the Silmarillion tells us so. In the interests of scientific curiosity, I'm reproducing this mangled intellectual cud in its entirety...
This is the Akallabêth all over again. You people need to read more Tolkien: Settled their hash, didn't he? My condolences if you made it all the way through. posted by Justin on 04.21.08 at 10:22 AM
Comments
Surely the obvious argument against life prolongation is the extreme conservatism (in a sociological, not political, sense) with which society would become pervaded? We already see this in the West, especially in Euroland and Japan. As (I believe) Heinlein once put it, everybody dies: but not everybody really lives. David Hecht · April 21, 2008 11:18 AM Dammit ... my eyes are bleeding from reading that. Once mankind becomes immortal, it dies. (now, there is nothing wrong with living a bit longer though ... but let Castro be an example of why we need 'term life limits') mdmhvonpa · April 21, 2008 01:29 PM I would have chosen other works of Tolkien - The Silmarillion's style still leaves me cold after many attempts - but I consider dangermouse's point well-taken. In an uncharted area - where we have no frigging idea what the consequences are going to be for our personalities, societies, and families - artists, prophets, and writers are an excellent place to look. Because the novels are fiction and Tolkien ultimately controls the result, we cannot rely on such opinions as definitive or a basis for law. He has thought much about the subject, however, as the theme of immortality or exceeding long life is expressed repeatedly in different characters, each of which has a very different experience of extended years: Gollum, Bombadil, Sauron, or the ents, elves, and wizards all see the passing of the world in different ways. Tolkien was about as thoroughly familiar with the Western Canon as it is possible to be. Its philosophers, writers, historical figures, and traditions informed his decades-long contemplation of this very issue. You might think his conclusions wrong, or prefer the reasoning of others on the subject, but you cannot dismiss him as silly. I suspect that your antipathy to dangermouse's reasoning is more properly seen as a dislike of the fantasy genre (not that there's anything wrong with that). Fantasy strikes many people as ridiculous, and I don't think there's any way around that. They haven't the taste for it. But until the explosion of pulp fantasy fiction in the 1970's, fantasy literature was a primary ground for the contemplation of deeper issues. Edmund Spenser may come to mind here. Even in children's literature, the complexity of moral questions encountered in Prydain and Narnia utterly swamps anything by Judy Blume. Assistant Village Idiot · April 21, 2008 01:59 PM When people tell me I shouldn't do something, that makes me want to do it. And if we're going to use fiction to argue, what about Lazarus Long and Connor McCloud of the Clan McCloud? The lived for a long time and were pretty cool. Of course, I want to live a long time. I'm curious to see where we're headed and I would really like to not die on the Earth. Veeshir · April 21, 2008 02:59 PM The thing is, we don't know for sure what would happen if we had a society full of deathless people, or if that's even possible. As far as we know in terms of fact, every person that has been born has died, or will die. We may be able to prolong life quite a bit now, and perhaps more in the future, but we still have to reconcile ourselves to our mortal nature. And our mortal nature is this: not merely that we do die, but that we can die. Even if we hold death from natural causes at bay, there is still enough potential for accidents, murder, or simply world-weariness to get each of us eventually. I'm really not sure where I'm going with this... but perpetual life-extension seems like an unknown that has a lot of unpleasant possibilities. Be prepared for some unexpected consequences. John S. · April 21, 2008 04:37 PM Post a comment
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So his scripture is a work the author didn't think was fit for publication yet.