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January 20, 2008
"In heaven, everything is fine"
(Sorry for the "Eraserhead" reference, but this is one post I'd rather not write. But the theme is about erasure anyway, so what the hell.) Ron Rosenbaum has a fascinating piece which documents the Mormon practice of baptising dead non-Mormons (something I'd only heard about vaguely). I take a broad general view of religions and I try to be tolerant of quirky practices. However, reading some of the details, it occurs to me that (if Mitt Romney is the candidate), the Democrats or their proxies will have a field day with this stuff: The practice, sometimes known as "Temple work" involves a Mormon "standing in" for a dead person to allow said dead one to be baptized as a Mormon and enter Mormon heaven. It became an issue when it turned out that many Mormons were retrospectively baptizing Holocaust victims such as Anne Frank and other dead Jews including Einstein and Freud as Mormons in this way. Not only that, some Mormons had baptized less savory figures in history including Stalin, Mao, Ivan the Terrible--and even Hitler himself (along with Eva Braun so they could share Mormon heaven together).Well, I'm glad to hear they stopped the practice, but surely there ought to be a way to remove Hitler, Stalin, and Mao from heaven. Maybe there's some way to retroactively unmeddle in Anne Frank's eternity too. Isn't she entitled to a say in whether or not she's a Mormon? Rosenbaum asks why Romney hasn't been asked about the strange practice: We know that Mitt Romney didn't speak up publicly against his church's second class citizenship for people of color, although he claimed to have wept with joy in 1978 (when he was 31) and this doctrine was discarded. Did he speak up at all against the shameful posthumous baptism of Holocaust victims? Of Hitler? How does he feel about it now? Why has no one raised the issue during the campaign?Why? Maybe because no one wants to be accused of anti-Mormon bigotry? Might the potential losers to Romney prefer that Hillary do the dirty work later? Nah, that sounds too much like a conspiracy theory. posted by Eric on 01.20.08 at 09:48 AM
Comments
"Did he speak up at all against the shameful posthumous baptism of Holocaust victims? Of Hitler?" Who is actually harmed by this Mormon practice? dre · January 20, 2008 01:12 PM It could be worse. You could wind up a Scientologist. Ron Hardin · January 20, 2008 02:07 PM Wonkette had the perfect headline in October Mitt to Beg Voters to Overlook His Scary and Confusing Religion Ron Hardin · January 20, 2008 02:12 PM TK, since when is Obama a Catholic? Geez... at least the Mormons have the decency to wait for you to die before converting you against your will. Watcher · January 20, 2008 02:23 PM In my discussion with members of the LDS (Mormon) faith, I think I understand that this practice of posthoumous baptism is not viewed in any way by them as binding or mandatory, but is optional for the person to accept/reject somewhere down there in the stream of the next life. As such, it is a plan whereby every person that has ever lived upon the earth can be participants in salvation if they want to be. Now, that appears to me to be a doctrine of inclusion, including everybody, not just those who were fortunate enough to live at certain times when the doctrines of salvation were known to some. That doctrine of inclusion is not something that can be found in other faith systems. Maybe the the Mormons (just maybe) aren't as inward and clannish as they are sometimes thought to be??? Woody · January 20, 2008 06:50 PM As I understand, baptism by proxy isn't supposed to get dead people out of Hell; it just releases them from Purgatory. It's more like indulgences in the Catholic Church. It can't help anyone who's really damned. So all that baptizing Hitler means to the Mormons is, if Hitler repented his sins before he died, the fact that he wasn't a Mormon does not now keep him out of Heaven. Michael Brazier · January 20, 2008 07:02 PM What if I posthuously pronounced (out of pure motives of course) your ancestors to be Jews? That would make you one, right? By your logic you should be grateful to me. Welcome to the family. Yo Ron I'd be dead and wouldn't give a rat's ass what you do or think. This guy is doing a little group grievance. Hey Ron is it ok with you to pray for dead people? Anonymous · January 20, 2008 07:23 PM This postmortem baptism into the Mormon Church is for the living, not for the dead. It's for Mormons to reassure themselves they've done something to help the deceased. It has no more meaning than that. You certainly can't make the dead follow Mormon doctrine or precepts. For the simple reason the dead are in the hands of God. Being the God of the universe is a lot like being the President of the United States, your vote counts. As far as I can see, if God wanted us to belong to any particular religion, we'd already be members of that religion. It's a matter of making up your own damn mind. These so-called postmortem conversions are not the same thing as the forced conversions people have been subjected to through the ages. The dead aren't there to make a coerced agreement, and there's no way anybody living can put pressure on them to accept it. So don't sweat it, Uncle Hiram isn't going to come back wearing funny drawers. Alan Kellogg · January 20, 2008 11:43 PM Just wait till people hear about how the catholics turn mere mortals into saints! Not to mention all the other quirky folks who pretend they're eating the body of Christ and drinkin' his blood every Sunday in order to get right with God. I wouldn't bring it up except somebody's obviously gonna make hay with that kind of stuff. JM Hanes · January 21, 2008 12:22 AM Post a comment
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Why does this matter in a Presidential election? Romney is not asking anyone to join his Church.
I don't know which is worse; the Mormons baptizing by proxy for people who have died so they can go to Heaven or the Catholics telling parents who have just lost a baby that the child is going to hell because it wasn't baptized.
Neither practice will stop me from voting for Obama (catholic) or Romney (Mormon). I will decide on their experience, education, policies, work ethic and family integrity.