I think it depends on exactly what Hudson said, in context. If he said that most of his friends when he was a kid that were black had, on average, a harder time swimming than white kids, its odd but not really racist. If he said "blacks can't swim" it is racist.

The question is what if he did say "blacks can't swim" and it turns out to be true? Is it still racist?

We have had two spectacular tragedies in Milwaukee in the last couple of years in which black kids drowned. One involved a rushing river and the other involved falling thru ice, but swimm training, and the related safety instruction, would have made both less likely.

My wife and I are fans of the show "Survivor," which I suppose makes us very declasse in some eyes, but one thing I can tell you from watching every episode from every season of that show is that nearly every black contestant they've had on has been a poor swimmer.

I don't claim to know the reasons for that, but they're most likely socioeconomic. I've heard it said, but have no substantiation of this, that blacks are in general less buoyant, but I find that a little far-fetched. Whatever the reasons, you can tell that they're just not comfortable in the water, and if there's a challenge or a task that requires diving down and getting something, sometimes they simply fail to do it completely, because they're on the verge of panic and are afraid of drowning.

So, in answer to the original question, of course it isn't racist to make a true observation that isn't meant to malign. The way I would put it is that blacks don't seem to have spent as much time in the water and therefore haven't acquired as many water skills as others.

It's also historically true that there have been fewer outstanding black golfers and tennis players than there have been black basketball and football players. We all know there are major exceptions, but they tend to prove the rule. I suspect that is for many of the same social and cultural reasons.

I agree with Richard. I think it'd be like saying "women can't run a business." 50 years ago it would be true because women lacked business training at a much higher rate than men did.

I think that even if blacks on average were at a genetic disadvantage with swimming, it still wouldn't be a fair statement because it sterotypes a whole group of people based on what their average is.

I entered the Air Force Academy in 1965 in a class of 1152 [all male back then](cranking up for the Vietnam War) which included some 20 or so black cadets. At the end of the summer we had to pass a swimming test that included swimming a half mile in a given time, etc, *and* being able to float unaided, on your back, without moving, for five minutes. We had all had four weeks of swimming lessons. Everyone passed the swimming part, six failed the floating part -- me and five black guys. We had one thing in common -- we were all tall and very skinny. I was 6 feet tall and weighed in at 148 -- all wire and rawhide as we'd say at home. They had very similar appearance. Fundamentally, we were too dense to float.

Later, for another project, I had my body fat measured. It clocked in at less than 1% which would have been unhealthy had I not been 19 and in peak condition.

I grew up next to a river and had been swimming since I was 3. Four of the other guys had never swum before our training. Guess which ones were most panicky when trying to float?

We were then allowed to 'jellyfish' float, and when I tried I sank to the bottom. Finally, all of us passed by floating on our backs and moving our hands/arms just enough to stay afloat.

I suspect a combination of lack of exposure to routine chances to swim and the body shape of young men, perhaps particularly those who are a bit malnutrited and/or perform as athletes, combines to make swimming more difficult fir some. It;s probably just that, on average, more blacks than whites fit that description.

Wait, I'm curious. What do racist organizations say about black swimming ability? Do they say that blacks lack the bone in their foot that lets them swim, so whites are the master race? Why use SWIMMING as propaganda? I'm confused.

i beleive it depends on how things are said and the meaning behind what is said determines if it is racist or not. If he has a valid point the African American people are less likely to be able to swim, perhaps now that it has been brought up things can be done about it. For instance lessons at the local ymca/ywca or the local swimming pools that were in neiborhoods when i grew up. quite a few schools have pools so work that into the PE lessons.

It is a commonplace that white men can't jump. However, it is never blamed on socio/economics. It is assumed to be racial. Why is swimming different? Is it because the one who can't do is black?

White men can jump. That's just the title of a dumb movie. But while we're on the subject, why do you think more and more players are making it into the NBA from eastern Europe?

The fact is that professional sports have become a way out of poverty for people in that part of the world they way it has been in America's urban centers for a long time. Eastern European kids are hungry and see an opportunity.

So there are socio-economic reasons for excellence in sports. If you value something, you do well at it. Period.

"i beleive it depends on how things are said and the meaning behind what is said determines if it is racist or not."

Thats the whole problem with the ever present Race Card. A percieved 'racist statement' no longer depends on the speakers intentended meaning but on the listeners sensitivities.

Cynthia McKinney is a prime example. She did her best to insinuate that she was stopped because she was black, and that she had every right to act like a complete ass and hit a cop. The fact that race had nothing to do with it whatsoever didn't stop her from trying to turn it into a racial issue.

My point is that the ever increasing cries of racism at any percieved slight are getting absurd to the point that if you make a completely honest observation about blacks and swimming, we have to have a discourse on socioeconomics, corrective plans to increase black participation in water sports, possible methods to close the Swimming Gap (if it exists), anecdotes about how the observation is wrong because "I knew a black guy who could swim better than anyone", etc.

They guy saw something, and told it like he saw it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Editor, an excellent and powerful book suggestion for your readers: 3rd ed. of: Race and the Rise of the Republican Party, 1848-1865. Backed by 18 years of research this is a serious treatment of US racism/ethnocentrism and is not for the timid. Dr. James D. Bilotta/raceandrepublicans.com

Sad and unrealistic to point to slavery.
Does this also explain the high number of black basketball players?

I remember a time swimming with a black coworker who tried and tried, but could not even float, much less swim. I attributed it to his body not being boyant.

I don't have answers, but please quit tying slavery to this. Why not ask a few black people?

Absolutely body fat has something to do with it. My father used to not swim because he'd sink (though he's since remedied the situation by gaining weight.) Whether this has anything to do with race is another question.

Incidentally, the category of "black" is more racially diverse than any other group on the planet. What is true for one group may very well not be true for another. (I am fairly sure that those black athletes who do well at sprints tend to NOT come from the same genetic heritage as the distance runners that perenially stomp all over the competition in marathons.) So it seems fairly implausible that there is something inherent in the black "race" (in quotes because it's only accurate in the plural) that makes it difficult for them to swim.

I throw my weight towards the opportunity and cultural aspects. When you don't have an option readily available, you tend not to explore it... and when it has potentially deadly penalties, such as drowning, you'll avoid casual experimentation.

Well I can remember my sister putting a shower cap on and swearing not to go underwater when we would swim (I'm black by the way) which I guess didn't give her the chance to learn to swim very well. When you have the hair that we have (and when you just got your hair done) it makes it a little hard to learn to swim.
Plus it isn't seen as a necessity when you live in the inner city. That first reason may seem a little superficial but ultimately it isn't seen as a necessity in the black community. I understand that the world is at least 75 percent water (I'm sure someone will correct me as to what it really is) but I don't know, someone said ask a Black person so I responded....
Ultimately, It's not genetic and not racist to make an observation... No one will argue that White people turn red when in the sun for too long... And most Black people will laugh when White people think we're very sensitive

Editor, an excellent and powerful book suggestion for your readers: 3rd ed. of: Race and the Rise of the Republican Party, 1848-1865. Backed by 18 years of research this is a serious yet at times humerous treatment of US racism/ethnocentrism and is not for the timid. Dr. James D. Bilotta/raceandrepublicans.com