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June 18, 2005
Is God an atheist?
Evolution or God! That used to be the "choice" demanded by fundamentalists unable to grasp the idea that if there is a deity, that deity could operate (or "create") things in any way he might desire. A classic example of this thinking is the Jack T. Chick pamphlet, "Creator or Liar" which maintains it is impossible to believe in evolution and God at the same time. Adherents to this view maintain that because evolution contradicts the biblical stories of Adam and Eve, and the Flood, that to believe in evolution is the same as saying "God lied." This extreme position not only requires believing without any evidence that God wrote every word in the Bible, but that every word is literally true and not subject to any interpretation. Thus, the "seven days" of creation cannot be seen in terms of huge chunks of geologic time, but as ordinary days in the human calendar. This makes the world only thousands of years old, and all thoughts of natural or geological evolution heretical -- even if believed by people who believe that an infinite God might be able to create anything in any number of infinite ways. Fundamentalists who think this way are fond of portraying their opponents as inflexible, anti-religious bigots. Like this Jack T. Chick stereotype (taken from "Big Daddy"): Fortunately or unfortunately, I was taught Darwinian evolution in a religious school which saw no contradiction between evolution and a belief in God. Putting aside the extreme fundamentalist view (or the extreme atheist view), I've never been able to see the logic behind such a contradiction, because God is neither provable nor disprovable. Thus, God can no more be disproved by evolution than evolution can be disproved by God. What worries me now is to see clear evidence that anti-religious activists may be upping the ante in this debate: ...how exactly do scientists come to the conclusion that “God had no part in this process”? What’s their proof? That’s the sort of thing that can’t really be proved, it seems to me -- which makes it sound as if scientists, despite their protestations of requiring proof rather than faith, make assertions about God that they can’t prove.What I'd like to know is from where did the "God had no part" meme suddenly appear? It is not scientific at all, but a theologic assertion which posits what God did (or in this case, didn't). It is one thing to assert that the stories of the Flood (or of Adam and Eve) are contradicted by science, but science cannot and has not disproved deism, which includes the idea that "Nature" -- and even string theory -- can be forms of God. Is it possible that some atheist scientists have found common cause with the extreme fundamentalists in the hope of creating another "showdown"? More and more, the word "Christian" is used as a synonym for "fundamentalist," and I suspect that many atheists would love to equate the slightest belief in God with fundamentalism, for the simple reason that it makes their case easier to prove. It also creates a new division based on another artificially constructed "choice." Collusion makes strange bedfellows. MORE: This "debate" gets more complicated in the face of claims of another asserted "contradiction" -- and that is the introduction of the concept of "intelligence" into the debate: The theory of intelligent design (ID) holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause rather than an undirected process such as natural selection. ID is thus a scientific disagreement with the core claim of evolutionary theory that the apparent design of living systems is an illusion.Intelligence is a human concept. Labeling natural phenomena as "intelligent" not only presupposes that "natural selection" asserts directionlessness (and thus, is against "intelligence"), but requires suspending disbelief and rendering a human value judgment on physical things. The bare assertion that evolutionary theory is an anti-religious value judgment against divine "intelligence" does not make it so -- any more than the failure of geology to teach that God made rocks is an assertion that he didn't. Intelligent design thus strikes me as a gratuitous -- and circular -- assertion that evolution denies intelligent design or is at war with it. (One might as well assert that teaching human reproduction negates "gay theory" or that teaching English negates Swahili.) To not assert something is not to deny something not denied, nor does it mean being at war with it. It is as unscientific as it is unnecessary, but I suspect the idea is to bootstrap into being the unstated assertion that "God" is "intelligent." The latter idea -- that God has human features such as intelligence -- is another unprovable theological assertion, and for it to be taught as fact would be another form of unconstitutional religious indoctrination (favoring one view of the divine over another). Calling a natural phenomenon intelligent is about as helpful as calling it stupid. (Might as well assert that evolution damages self esteem.) posted by Eric on 06.18.05 at 11:19 AM
Comments
I appreciate hearing your viewpoint, which differs from mine (which differs from nearly everyone's). Those who are disinclined to see God as defined and limited by the Bible are less likely to see a contradiction between evolution and God. Who gets to define God? Eric Scheie · June 18, 2005 02:25 PM God is beyond definition, by definition. Like John & you, I've no problem accepting both evolution and an idea of God [I'm a Christian, but I'm keeping this neutral in deference]. Neither does the Vatican, oddly enough - in the '50s the Pope produced an encyclical [Homo Generis? Something like that] which endorsed the theory and supported research into it for their priests, etc. This battle you are highlighting now is thus between a minority of Christians & a coterie of Atheists. They shouldn't speak for the rest of us, I think, so it's very good of you to bring the topic up in this way. urthshu · June 18, 2005 05:41 PM My Left Hemisphere tells me that I must play Devil's Advocate: The brilliant* Dr. Wanda Khlausthyne, on page 666 of every volume of her tomes and textbooks on Chaotic Field Theory, and of her culminating work, The Physics of Evolution, proves scientifically that "there is no God". Beginning with Volume VI to Volume XIII, she delineates the divergent evolution of the scientific mind (i.e., herself) vs. the superstitious mind. Comic book** characters: Muscle Man, Muscle Boy, Muscle Girl, Myth Girl vs. Dr. Smart, Xyxqtl ("Smarter"), Smartess, Brain Girl (**used in Dr. Khlausthyne's Experimental School of Science) As she proved in her play The 9 Evil Lesbian Invaders From Another Galaxy: "....The gooder they are the dumber they are, and the smarter the more evil." (*"What do you think of Dr. Khlausthyne?" The other side later.... Steven Malcolm Anderson the Lesbian-worshipping man's-man-admiring myth-based egoist · June 18, 2005 08:46 PM That's funny. The more advanced theologians of previous centuries argued God was Nothing as well. But of course, this is child's play. A God that can be proved by natural reasoning alone is, by necessity, not God at all. urthshu · June 18, 2005 10:59 PM Her style! "....At this point you may turn over your cassette...." Steven Malcolm Anderson the Lesbian-worshipping man's-man-admiring myth-based egoist · June 19, 2005 12:23 AM I've long thought that the desire among some evangelicals to prove that God exists, creationism, intelligent design, etc., was silly and counterproductive. Six-Day Creationism cannot be scientifically supported. Attempts by Christians to do so make us look like obvious liars or really stupid. Anyway, it's not science, since in science, pre-determined conclusions are a big no-no. Ditto for intelligent design. It's not science (pre-determined conclusions, as well as a host of other logical irrationalities) and it contradicts the Bible, which says that the earth is 6,000 years old. Trying to evangelize by pushing this pseudoscience promotes the notion that Christians are intellectually dishonest or really slow on the uptake. Besides, it contradicts the idea that Christians shall live by faith and not by proof, as expressed in 1 John 4:12: No one has ever seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. A more effective form of witnessing is being a love, compassionate, and generous neighbor who lives out the values of Christ in his life. Not this argumentative nonsense. John · June 19, 2005 06:49 PM Actually, I thought ID was strongest when it comes to abiogenesis. The problem that I have with the General Theory of Evolution is that it fails the math test. Even taking into account selection of useful mutations, there simply hasn't been enough time to account for the mutations that we have (setting aside that Evolution explicitly skirts the abiogenesis question.) I'm not convinced of ID, but I haven't ruled out something monkeying with the changes on Earth. (ID explaining life on Earth doesn't preclude evolution being responsible for intelligent life on an older planet.) Phelps · June 21, 2005 09:55 PM |
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I'm an evangelical Christian, but I support an evolutionary origin of the species.
The Bible is quite clear on the Creation story. Science, unfortunately, flatly contradicts it. Although it is a hole in my faith, I cannot ignore the obvious scientific evidence for evolution.
Many Christians say that the Bible is inerrant, meaning literally true in all aspects. I support the notion that it is infalliable, meaning that everything written into the Bible was put there by God for a purpose. I think that one can understand why God chose not to reveal the evolutionary origin of the species to illiterate desert shepherds -- it would only have confused them. So God wove the Creation fable for His purposes and gradually revealed more to mankind in time.