Women Will Not Go Back

Clare Spark has a few words on the election.

…the nation is polarized around capitalism itself, whether or not our market society can offer upward mobility and a better quality of life for all persons willing to work. Let us not forget that “capitalism” is a relatively recent development in the world, and, in the propaganda of entrenched aristocratic elites, “capitalism” was always a term of derision with nasty antisemitic undertones: the God-killing “money power” and the machines the money power (the industrial bourgeoisie) had invented to extend its global reach were the cause of all disasters from mass death in the 20th century wars (themselves masked conflicts over imperialist booty), the degradation of the environment, and a popular culture that encouraged decadence through hyper-sexualization, unleashed aggression, materialism, and the susceptibility to “totalitarian” demagoguery.

She also points out that the Christian Democrat Party, aka The Anti-Abortion Party, aka the Republicans have a serious problem with women.

…Rightists who sought to put Humpty-Dumpty back together again through a religious revival and an interpretation of the Constitution that made it divinely inspired. Much of the country agrees with that interpretation, and the Tenth Amendment makes it possible for persons who hold to the pro-life position, for instance, to live in states that legislate their versions of rectitude and holiness.

But the genie is out of the bottle. Most women will never go back to the period of domination wherein they may not control the timing of their reproduction—the most important economic decision of their lives. It is the view of many that the election of 2012 was lost by the Republicans because of the women’s vote, and not because of freeloading minorities and the poor, as some conservative commentators aver.

As I said here in a response to a comment by Clare:

How much appeal does The Christian Democrat Party have for Jews? The abortion stuff is especially offputting to the Jewish women who have discussed the election with me.

And Clare. We have two Progressive parties in America. Why do I say that? Both operate on the principle “Government should…” . They only differ in “…” .


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34 responses to “Women Will Not Go Back”

  1. Neil Avatar
    Neil

    The 10th Amendment is dead. Or did Ms. Clare somehow forget about Roe v. Wade? That’s the problem, that’s why compromise is impossible.

    Federalism makes room for differences. It also means that losing an election is not a catastrophe. But leftists, conservatives, and–yes–libertarians will have to agree to disagree.

  2. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    I have no problem with a 10th Amendment compromise.

    It might work re: prohibition. I can’t see it working re: abortion. The Christian Democrats would never go for it.

    I expect Rs will become nationally what they are in California. Ineffective and marginalized.

    As I said pre-election I will work with whoever comes out on top. As long as they don’t mess with me. I intend to keep my promise.

  3. Neil Avatar
    Neil

    Good luck with that “don’t mess with me” thing. You realize economic regulation isn’t just taxes, right? The EPA’s rulemaking over the next year or so is going to be astounding, as concerns the details of our lives.

    I don’t know where you get the idea that conservatives won’t go for a 10th Amendment compromise. Strengthening the 10th Amendment and redefining the Commerce Clause loophole are a regular topic of conversation among conservatives.

  4. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Yes. That is how they talk. Until they get into power. See the Terri Schiavo incident.

    Keep in mind how they treated the Libertarian Republicans. They were uniformly reviled and for practical purposes drummed out of the party. I was subject to quite a bit of that myself. “We don’t need your kind.” OK.

    And yes. The EPA is going to be a real bitch.

  5. Kathy Kinsley Avatar
    Kathy Kinsley

    The whole alphabet is going to (continue to) be a real bitch. EPA, FDA, TSA, IRS, FBI, CIA (why am I reminded of an ancient off-Broadway play?)

    Anyway, they’ll all be flexing their muscles…with no oversight.

    “May you live in interesting times” (whether its origin is Chinese or not) is considered a curse in every language it’s ever been translated into…

  6. Neil Avatar
    Neil

    Well then, there’s no point is there? Why are you even bringing this up if there’s no hope?

    I think you’re wrong, by the way. Four more years will be a pretty good persuader. Of course, that may be too late.

  7. Neil Avatar
    Neil

    Another problem with Ms. Spark’s article: Nobody on the right is talking about outlawing contraceptive. Absolutely nobody is asking women to accept a legal regime “wherein they may not control the timing of their reproduction”. Did you seriously buy into the War on Women propaganda?

  8. Frank Avatar
    Frank

    Absolutely nobody?

    “One of the things I will talk about, that no president has talked about before, is I think the dangers of contraception in this country.” And also, “Many of the Christian faith have said, well, that’s okay, contraception is okay. It’s not okay. It’s a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be.”

    Rick Santorum, candidate for President, Republican Senator from PA. October, 2011.

    http://www.salon.com/2012/01/04/rick_santorum_is_coming_for_your_birth_control/

  9. Frank Avatar
    Frank

    Absolutely, positively, without question, nobody?

    HUCKABEE: There are some forms of birth control that really are the destruction of a fertilized egg.

    QUESTIONER (male voice): Should the government ban that sort of birth control?

    QUESTIONER (female voice): RU-486? The morning after pill? Birth control pills?

    HUCKABEE: Yeah,…

    Mike Huckabee, candidate for President, Republican Governor of Arkansas, 2007 interview with the Des Moines Register.

    http://www.jedreport.com/2008/01/mike-huckabee-w.html

  10. Frank Avatar
    Frank

    Nobody???? (Well, yes she is a nobody.)

    Bachmann supports a U.S. constitutional amendment banning all abortion. She has also proposed a ban on some forms of birth control, such as Plan B,…

    Michelle Bachmann, candidate for President, U.S. Representative, MN.

    http://civilliberty.about.com/od/profiles/p/Michele-Bachmann-Civil-Liberties.htm

  11. Frank Avatar
    Frank

    And finally, an article that nails at least one of the reasons the Republicans lost.

    Why the War on Birth Control Is a Political Disaster for the GOP

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-creamer/why-the-war-on-birth-cont_b_1288802.html

  12. Frank Avatar
    Frank

    Post Script –
    Michael Savage, Eric’s “favorite” conservative, takes the opposite tack on contraception, one that is equally repugnant, forced contraception:

    He also wants to see Norplant, the embedded contraceptive, required for all women on welfare.

    “That’s a revolutionary statement,” he [Savage] admitted. “But should we permit women on welfare to keep knocking out babies to increase their benefits? Only an insane society would permit that.”

    http://www.mereorthodoxy.com/a-lesson-in-discernment-michael-savage-and-mandated-birth-control/

  13. Neil Avatar
    Neil

    Santorum, Huckabee, and Bachmann. Nobodies. Repudiated when they tried for president. Precisely my point.

    You can also find people on the left who want to herd all Christians into re-education camps, but we’re not talking about wackos here.

  14. Frank Avatar
    Frank

    we’re not talking about wackos here.

    Then you’re not talking about the base of the Republican Party, the social conservatives. Because they ARE wackos, and perfectly represented by Huckabee, Santorum, and Bachmann. Own it.

  15. Frank Avatar
    Frank

    Claire Wolfe makes the observation:

    Now the R-party, reeling in defeat and division, has the opportunity to re-create itself as the party of freedom — the party that offers more by governing less, taxing less, intervening less, and respecting individual rights more (without all that moralistic baggage that doesn’t belong in the administration of a nation). And a new generation would be open to their message.

    The pity is … there’s not a chance in the world they’ll seize the opportunity.

    http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/ClaireWolfe/2012/11/07/pity-about-the-republicans-though/#comments

    Agree totally.

  16. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Well then, there’s no point is there? Why are you even bringing this up if there’s no hope?

    There are other ways.

    BTW the first mate was telling me that abortion was the reason Mohammed (the guy who owns the tobacco shop we buy at) wouldn’t vote for Republicans because of their stance on abortion – something about Ryan suing women who had one.

    Ah. Here it is.

    Paul Ryan Sponsored a Bill that Would Allow Rapists to Stop their Victims from Aborting

    http://jezebel.com/5934975/paul-ryan-sponsored-a-bill-that-would-allow-rapists-to-stop-their-victims-from-aborting

    I don’t know how true it is without reading it but given the Republican brand it rings true.

  17. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Santorum, Huckabee, and Bachmann. Nobodies. Repudiated when they tried for president. Precisely my point.

    But weren’t you telling me that I had to work with the base of the Republicans? That is the base.

    I agree that I can’t win without them. I can’t win with them either.

    ====

    The Republican Liberty Caucus has a rabid anti-abortion faction. I have been telling them for months that their position is a loser. They didn’t believe me.

  18. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    I wrote a bit on all this from the standpoint of thermodynamics:

    http://classicalvalues.com/2009/11/the_blue_and_th_1/

  19. Joseph Hertzlinger Avatar

    Actually, the politicians did something right for once in the Terri Schindler Schiavo case.

    They passed a special-purpose bill instead of passing a poorly thought-out general-purpose bill in the heat of the moment. (This is almost as strange as a wild bear using a flush toilet.) General-purpose bills are apt to have unintended consequences. A bill intended to preserve somebody’s right to life against hostile relatives might cause the Feds to intervene in a family quarrel in which a spoiled adolescent threatens suicide. A bill intended to ensure that the handicapped receive adequate care might cause the Bureau of Fashionable Ninnies to second guess doctors. Conservatives who think such a bureaucracy won’t be captured by the Left are fooling themselves. (The above was written some years ago. We now have a Bureau of Fashionable Ninnies anyway.)

    The special-purpose bill they passed was actually harmless.

  20. CRH Avatar
    CRH

    Far from harmless, sir.

    Terri Schiavo was when Team Red lost the 2006 election. At the time I was deep in the heart of Dixie, operating with some Liberty Caucus Reds who were very jazzed up. Once the story was on the nightly news daily and the contortion of law bending and federal interference, you know, “for the greater good” happened, the group shrank by 3/4. Sorry to say that most of those who left went on to join the “liberaltarians” and campaigned against the Republican congress and against McCain. It was seen as a betrayal of trust that led Bush to his second victory and kept his congressional majorities, especially with the SoCons dancing in the street and being total asshats when we brought up objections. Did I mention we were all in our twenties? who needs the youth vote, right? Not the Shakers, and apparently not Team Red.

    If, in the buckle of the Bible belt, SoCon policy drives the youngins toward the other side, is it any wonder New England, the West Coast, and the Great Lakes voted the way they did?

  21. Neil Avatar
    Neil

    Simon–you’re using the “No True Scotsman” fallacy.

    It doesn’t matter to you how many self-described conservatives might be willing to compromise, because No True Conservative will compromise. If you insist that you cannot work with the Republicans unless every single Republican agrees with you, then you’re just screwing yourself.

  22. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Joseph,

    Harmless it may have been but the atmospherics were horrible.

  23. Daniel Taylor Avatar
    Daniel Taylor

    Niel: one of the current conservative tenets is “if you are right you shoudn’t compromise, at all, ever”.

    So anyone who would compromise is no true conservative by that standard.

  24. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Neil,

    I can work with Republican socons. But you should see the hate fest in some places against the Untrue Republicans. Paulites. The followers of Gary Johnson. Those favoring the end of prohibition. Those who think the government should stay out of the marriage business. Those who want government to stay away from our personal lives.

    I fit a couple of those profiles.

    It is their God given RIGHT to use a government stick against us. How dare we not ask for another beating.

  25. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    A more hopeful look at the future of the Republicans.

    http://classicalvalues.com/2012/11/republicans-lost-liberty-won/

    Neil – the upshot is that the socons had better mend their ways.

  26. Kathy Kinsley Avatar
    Kathy Kinsley

    Heh, Simon, see my comment on your link… sigh.

  27. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Kathy,

    Clare is a comment Nazi. It did not get posted.

  28. lhf Avatar
    lhf

    But but but – white women did support Romney over Obama, so how do you explain that?

    Also, although I am not religious, I have changed my mind about abortion over the years. We have come to the point now where we may be saving a baby under 1 pound in one room of a hospital and killing one of the same size in another. That creates a moral dilemma. What does “viability” mean and where has “choice” led us?

    There are also those (Peter Singer) who argue that it is ok to kill a baby after birth up to a certain point. That, unfortunately, is the result of “choice” as a standard.

  29. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    lhf,

    According to the polls I saw that switched back the other way a few days before the election.

    You are arguing the morals of the situation. I’m arguing votes. You may be morally correct (the Jewish view is different) but vote wise vagina police is a loser.

    See my latest on the subject:

    http://classicalvalues.com/2012/11/not-a-word/

    Why not leave government out of the equation and work to change minds?

  30. Kathy Kinsley Avatar
    Kathy Kinsley

    Umm – no – I meant on your link to YOUR link (on your blog.) I know Clare wouldn’t post my comments…
    http://classicalvalues.com/2012/11/republicans-lost-liberty-won/

  31. Kathy Kinsley Avatar
    Kathy Kinsley

    Vagina police is a loser – but so should be food police (which affects the ENTIRE population). Sigh.

    I guess vagina freedoms are more sacred, somehow, than our right to eat what we want, smoke what we want – etc.. As long as we can F*** what we want without planning ahead, all is well…

    (Oh, and for the record, I’m PRO abortion. (Not just pro choice.) And an adoptee – go figure.)

  32. Kathy Kinsley Avatar
    Kathy Kinsley

    P.S. Go read about “Liberty never allowed” at the bastard’s site. Ban on drugs? Who cares. I cannot, legally, find out who my mother or father is, in the state I was born in. And no-one, not Republicans, not Libertarians, not Democrats will back us. Sell us at birth. Cool. I call it slavery. The rest call it “rescued from the dumpster – and you must be happy about it; grateful, thrilled. Sorry. Not. Guilty maybe, (I wasn’t supposed to be), but..

    Grateful, hell. But there are more freedoms stuffed in the hole in this here “LAND OF THE FREE” than just what you put into your body. Keep that in mind.

  33. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    Kathy,

    You neglected posting a link for “Liberty never allowed”. A cursory search did not turn it up.

  34. […] Terri Schiavo case came up in the comments. One commenter said that what the Republicans in Congress did was […]